Yaris throttle flare

[marka]

The engine on my new, U.S. Yaris sounds like it has a sticky throttle. When I shift, the revs go up momentarily, however quickly I lift off the pedal.

The dealer service manager says this is normal for the 'drive by wire' car. Part of the emissions system, it keeps the manifold hot, he says.

While the effect is greatest when the car is cold, so far it hasn't gone away entirely. It sure seems like a lot of gas gets wasted, not to mention extra wear and tear on the engine itself. I wonder just what is being burned, useless polluting hydrocarbons, raw fuel that would otherwise go out the pipe, or what?

BTW The ecu is programmable, but there have been no relevant service updates yet.

Any info, please.
Thanks
Mark

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by marka

The engine on my new, U.S. Yaris sounds like it has a sticky throttle. When I shift, the revs go up momentarily, however quickly I lift off the pedal.

The dealer service manager says this is normal for the 'drive by wire' car. Part of the emissions system, it keeps the manifold hot, he says.

While the effect is greatest when the car is cold, so far it hasn't gone away entirely. It sure seems like a lot of gas gets wasted, not to mention extra wear and tear on the engine itself. I wonder just what is being burned, useless polluting hydrocarbons, raw fuel that would otherwise go out the pipe, or what?

BTW The ecu is programmable, but there have been no relevant service updates yet.

Any info, please.
Thanks
Mark

Mark what do you mean the ecu is programmable ???
Sound more like the throttle by wire issue to me when it comes to your throttle issue.

[TcmaBoy]

I take it you have a stick? I am not sure what bumping the throttle between shifts has to do with emissions. It might be helpful in preventing you from bogging the engine when you shift.

Originally Posted by Wraith

Mark what do you mean the ecu is programmable ???
Sound more like the throttle by wire issue to me when it comes to your throttle issue.

The latest generation of Toyota ECUs are flashable. Toyota introduced them a few years ago.

[marka]

Hah! When it's cold, the 5 speed car sounds like it has a very slippy automatic.

The Toyata service chief gave me the clue about emissions. The way I get it is that the wired throttle goes through the ecu. I'm getting used to it.
Mark



[QUOTE=Wraith] Mark what do you mean the ecu is programmable ???
Sound more like the throttle by wire issue to me when it comes to your throttle issue.

Originally Posted by TcmaBoy

I take it you have a stick? I am not sure what bumping the throttle between shifts has to do with emissions. It might be helpful in preventing you from bogging the engine when you shift.



The latest generation of Toyota ECUs are flashable. Toyota introduced them a few years ago.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by TcmaBoy

The latest generation of Toyota ECUs are flashable. Toyota introduced them a few years ago.

um... all the ecu's Toyota has is Flashable up to 1997 ... Other than that no aftermarket company has been able to crack the code since then ....

The current generation ecu's especially on the yaris isnt flashable... Why because 1: no one has the code 2: the chip frys it self as soon as you try to flash it ...

[marka]

Interesting to learn.

Guess Toyata doesn't want us to mess with their gem-like little cars. Have to wait for them to get around to it.

Don't know anything about it but I'd expect that aftermarket ecu software is aimed at performance rather than economy anyway. Correct?

Originally Posted by Wraith

um... all the ecu's Toyota has is Flashable up to 1997 ... Other than that no aftermarket company has been able to crack the code since then ....

The current generation ecu's especially on the yaris isnt flashable... Why because 1: no one has the code 2: the chip frys it self as soon as you try to flash it ...

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by marka

Interesting to learn.

Guess Toyata doesn't want us to mess with their gem-like little cars. Have to wait for them to get around to it.

Don't know anything about it but I'd expect that aftermarket ecu software is aimed at performance rather than economy anyway. Correct?

the only aftermarket ecus out there for the Yaris, Echo, and Vitz are Tom's and C-ONE its a complete replacement but its a modified stock unit. Those companies are one of the few companies that has the software from Nippon Denso.

[TcmaBoy]

Originally Posted by Wraith

um... all the ecu's Toyota has is Flashable up to 1997 ... Other than that no aftermarket company has been able to crack the code since then ....

The current generation ecu's especially on the yaris isnt flashable... Why because 1: no one has the code 2: the chip frys it self as soon as you try to flash it ...

Ummm....my 97 5VZ ECU is very much not flashable. My 88 7MGE ECU....not flashable. My 1993 1JZ ECU....not flashable. You cannot reprogram it through the OBD port, nor any of the other ECUs. In order to make it reprogramable you would need a parallel memory unit such as a Tech Tom. Seperate piggy back units do not make the ECU flashable. They merely alter signals before and after they are passed to the ECU. By the time we work our way up to standalone who cares. You aren't even dealing with the stock ECU anymore.

The newer ECUs are very much flashable, but there are not any aftermarket units that can do it. It is supposed to be there so dealers can perform software updates. The reason for the lack of aftermarket ECU hacking is due to Toyota's extreme desire to prevent ECU hacking. Also there is a federal law that states that OEMs must make a vehicles ECU tamper proof. Some companies such as Ford and GM tend to have their security seeds leaked to the aftermarket community. That is why there are units out there to reprogram them. Toyota does not play that game.

Additionaly the idea of trying to run an aftermarket ECU to eliminate a quirk that is probably there for a reason seems like killing a fly with a nuclear device.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by TcmaBoy

Ummm....my 97 5VZ ECU is very much not flashable. My 88 7MGE ECU....not flashable. My 1993 1JZ ECU....not flashable. You cannot reprogram it through the OBD port, nor any of the other ECUs. In order to make it reprogramable you would need a parallel memory unit such as a Tech Tom. Seperate piggy back units do not make the ECU flashable. They merely alter signals before and after they are passed to the ECU. By the time we work our way up to standalone who cares. You aren't even dealing with the stock ECU anymore.

The newer ECUs are very much flashable, but there are not any aftermarket units that can do it. It is supposed to be there so dealers can perform software updates. The reason for the lack of aftermarket ECU hacking is due to Toyota's extreme desire to prevent ECU hacking. Also there is a federal law that states that OEMs must make a vehicles ECU tamper proof. Some companies such as Ford and GM tend to have their security seeds leaked to the aftermarket community. That is why there are units out there to reprogram them. Toyota does not play that game.

Additionaly the idea of trying to run an aftermarket ECU to eliminate a quirk that is probably there for a reason seems like killing a fly with a nuclear device.

um no when I mean flashable I mean reprogramming like Tech Tom's and G-Force ecu ...when you actually burn a new chip in ... But you have to flash the old ones to retrieve the old maps...

I'm not talking about programming the stock ecu thru and obd port...

The obd port ( in toyotas I dont know any of the other manufacturers)is to just check for check codes and for software updates... Theres no way you can re program the maps thru and obd port on a Toyota... I know for a fact that the 1997 and up ecu cannot have their maps reprogrammed thru an obd port ... If you think other wise then how come all these guys MR2's and Mr2 spyders, Corolla guys, Scions, Vitz/Echo guys, and Celica guys cant re-program their ecu's ???
As far as I know thats how it is with Toyota/Nippon Denson ecus ... Unless you have a unknown/secret software that can do that ... If you did I'm talking to a millionaire...

[TcmaBoy]

Originally Posted by Wraith

um no when I mean flashable I mean reprogramming like Tech Tom's and G-Force ecu ...when you actually burn a new chip in ... But you have to flash the old ones to retrieve the old maps...
I'm not talking about programming the stock ecu thru and obd port...

The obd port ( in toyotas I dont know any of the other manufacturers)is to just check for check codes and for software updates... Theres no way you can re program the maps thru and obd port on a Toyota... I know for a fact that the 1997 and up ecu cannot have their maps reprogrammed thru an obd port ... If you think other wise then how come all these guys MR2's and Mr2 spyders, Corolla guys, Scions, Vitz/Echo guys, and Celica guys cant re-program their ecu's ???
As far as I know thats how it is with Toyota/Nippon Denson ecus ... Unless you have a unknown/secret software that can do that ... If you did I'm talking to a millionaire...

No, no. I am only talking about the newest generation of ECUs, such as for the 1GR-FE. They are supposed to be reprogramable. From what I hear Toyota wanted the ability to update software on them so that they can correct any quirks that pop up. I believe Toyota started using them in 2001. Toyota seems to keep very tight controls on the equipment/software needed to do updates and from what I understand is a dealer only procedure.

[marka]

After our discussion here, Totyota took awhile to respond, but here's what they say. Btw my dealer tankful yielded 40.2 mpg in mixed city driving.
Mark



Begin forwarded message:

From: "Ask Toyota" <toyota_cares@toyota.com>
Date: June 12, 2006 9:56:26 AM PDT
To: marka@highstream.net
Subject: Yaris ecu [Incident: 060602-000155]
Reply-To: "Ask Toyota" <toyota_cares@toyota.com>

Recently you contacted Toyota. Below is a summary of your contact message and our response.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.



Subject
Yaris ecu

Discussion Thread
Response (Robert) 06/12/2006 09:56 AM
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We apologize for your concern with your Toyota Yaris.

Because we do not have the ability to fully evaluate your vehicle, we cannot state with certainty if what you are experiencing is normal. However, the vehicle’s electronic sensors and the engine's electronic control unit are designed to have the engine idle higher than the normal idle RPM (revolutions per minute) when the engine is cold. This dynamic may be more pronounced when the ambient air temperature is notably cold as well. The vehicle is designed as such to bring the engine up to optimum operating temperature as quickly as possible, which improves engine performance, and decreases vehicle emissions. As the vehicle is designed to operate in such a manner, this idle level should not cause any undue damage to the engine.

With this understanding, if you still feel you have a legitimate concern with your vehicle, we recommend you contact the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership for further clarification.

If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via email or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday, and from 7 AM to 4 PM Saturday.

We have documented your comments at our National Headquarters under file #200606120617.






Toyota Customer Experience
Customer (Mark Albanese) 06/02/2006 11:40 AM

My car sounds like it has a sticky throttle. When shifting, the engine revs go up, no matter how quickly I lift my foot. It's most pronounced when the car is cold but never completely disappears.

The service manager at Vancouver Toyota explained this is an emission control feature. That there is no adjustment and no ecu upgrade available now.

I'd like to know if this is wasting gas or not and whether it adds extra wear and tear to the engine.

Thanks,
Mark

[hachi-rocu]

I think that this is the what the car is supposed to act like. (to an extent). Give it a week or two and you will adjust to the car.

Have you ever driven any new toyota cars (5 speed)?

[marka]

Originally Posted by hachi-rocu

I think that this is the what the car is supposed to act like. (to an extent). Give it a week or two and you will adjust to the car.

Have you ever driven any new toyota cars (5 speed)?

Yes, I am getting better used to it and this _is_ the way they've engineered it. How it gets to ULEV.

I'm glad you asked about the trans but can't guess what you may have had specifically in mind.
No, this is the first brand new Toyota, and I wonder if the trans is also how it's 'sposed to be. Are they made so tightly you can sometimes wonder if it's chipping a tooth?

For 900 miles now I'be been trying to feel if the persistent slight snag between the gears is in the transmission itself or just the shifter. It's a very close call because both often do work perfectly.


I've tried letting the engine settle after the idle-up without improvement. That would have been way too slow anyway.

Just to add to my confusion, I saw in some magazine review at the store where they pretty much panned the car overall as dull and boring but thought the shifter rather good. Driving around I haven't noticed the body lean they complained of. I'm happy with the car except for this now.

Double clutching minimizies it best.

It's very slight, but in my ignorance I'm worried it'll be just that much extra wear.

Know that old song? "It's time to tighten up. Let's do the tighten up. Let's do the tighten up... ...Doan wanna get too tight now..."

Mark

[hachi-rocu]

This is just the way the car acts.

Ask any other Yaris owner and they will say the same

Dont worry too much

[marka]

Hachi?

Thanks for the good advice. The dealer service offered to check me out, though, on Thursday. Maybe they can tweak it just a little bit.

If not, we'll switch to the Redline MTL. You wouldn't believe the stiff and screaming Geo Metro tranny saved with this stuff once.
http://tinyurl.com/ndem9

Cheers,
Mark

Originally Posted by hachi-rocu

This is just the way the car acts.

Ask any other Yaris owner and they will say the same
Dont worry too much