will lowering cause stiff control? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

RayRaymond · 05-07-2003, 05:03 PM

Hi, will lowering the body cause the stiffness of control?

no matter how many inches? what brand? and what car?

boroEF · 05-07-2003, 07:46 PM

what is stiffness of control? o.O

read up about suspension: http://geocities.com/nuahs_cx/sd.html

Xenon · 05-08-2003, 11:38 AM

I think you're question is very general and unclear... So can you be more elaborate and specific?

RayRaymond · 05-08-2003, 09:11 PM

okok, what i mean is if a car is lowered will the steering wheel be also tighter? more heavy so it is not easy to turn?

i am wondering if different brand is different.

so far i know(very limited) the best suspension is H&R, is it?

if i want to lower my car let say it is a japanese car, which brand is good?

and if i want to lower a euro car like BMW, which brand is best?

thanks

boroEF · 05-09-2003, 08:38 AM

it's all the same shit. it depends on the rates u want and if u want linear springs or progressive springs...

steering wheel wont be tighter...it's not like ur slapping on 19x11 rims and have no power steering

Xenon · 05-09-2003, 05:17 PM

Lowering does not affect your steering, bigger size tires do!

There's no certain spring recommendation in the market, every person has different preferences for their suspension. Some people like it stiff and hard, some people like it soft but with good cornering!

Most of the time I hear people going through different brandname springs until they find something they like, and some people just buy based on other peoples' opinions..

H&R aren't the best springs but they are very good springs, they are very highly recommended for Hondas. There's a few brand names that we don't get here in North America but they are excellent.

Springs vary in height, stiffness, manufacturing steps.

The first one is pretty obvious, there are different springs drops, 1", 1.2", 1.6" .....etc.

Stiffness, some springs are stiffer than others, some are for track use only (very stiff) and some are for street use (comfortable) and of course there are some that sit in the middle..

Manufacturing steps, each spring is creat in different steps, the only reason I want to speak of this point is because some springs aren't heat treated which means they do not hold their form as well as other springs, that would lead to them sagging or loosing shape.

Now, keep in mind that a lot different springs settle, meaning that after you install them on a car they'll be under pressure and they will settle bring your car lower than the height of the spring itself..

I hope this is a bit informative...

Deep · 05-09-2003, 05:50 PM

JIC has some coilovers that allow you adjust ride height and spring rates individually. This means that you can keep your original suspension travel but drop the body of the car by moving the spring perch.

rezzle · 05-09-2003, 05:59 PM

Car manufacturers go through a whole bunch of engineering to make sure the steering geometry and spring rate are correct when they sell a car. Are you sure lowering it and messing up all that thought is what you want to do? I expect (know) you would get very satisfactory results when it comes to car handling by just upgrading your shock absorbers and purchasing better rubber.

This month alone in Calgary I have seen no less than 5 cars that have been lowered and none of them got the geometry right. Two cars the tires were riding on the corners instead of flat or ttwo cars were bouncing at about 3 HZ while driving at 110 KPH, and one bonehead even ripped off his front valence on a speedbump at the local co-op store.

Unless you really KNOW what you are doing I wouldn't f*ck with it.

Xenon · 05-09-2003, 07:49 PM

What you're talking about has nothing to do with steering..

When the car bounces around that would mean that either the OEM springs were cut to lower the car, or the car was lowered with the right springs on bad struts/shocks..

The car wearing out tire sides and not the inside of the tire means the alignment and balance wasn't done after the car was lowered..

***REN69*** · 05-09-2003, 08:11 PM

I saw a Hyundai the other day, and I think the guy cut the springs cuz the car bounced up and down on both front and back.. I was like..

LOL!!!

Xenon · 05-10-2003, 11:42 AM

Trust me Ren, I see these butchered cars all the time. Sometimes I can't tell if the car is jumping or if the person driving it is giving high beams!!

It's just a shame to buy springs and install them while your struts are bad, because technically you should fix the problems in your car and then add performance parts and cosmetics..

At least that's my mentality..

rezzle · 05-10-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xenon
What you're talking about has nothing to do with steering..

It has little to do with steering but everything to do with handling.

Quote:

Originally posted by Xenon
When the car bounces around that would mean that either the OEM springs were cut to lower the car, or the car was lowered with the right springs on bad struts/shocks..

Either way worn out shocks or improper shock to match the new stiffer springs an improper match is just plain dangerous and finding a match not always easy.

Quote:

Originally posted by Xenon
The car wearing out tire sides and not the inside of the tire means the alignment and balance wasn't done after the car was lowered..

In most cases an alignment cannot be done with the stock setup because there is just not enough adjustment. The front top strut mounts have to be redone to allow for more camber adjustment and the rear shock/sping mounts should be redone ... usually at the bottom to suit.

Here is a link to a car that was just for sale here locally I am not sure how long the link is going to last so I redid the page and put it up on my web. Take a look at the places I mentioned above and see how much work was done. A metal plate with slots was added at the top of the strut mount and the whole rear suspension assemble has been redone. Although really not that difficult most folks just don't have acces to the kind of equipment needed to accomplish these type of mods. Not to mention the engineering skills to get it right.

http://members.shaw.ca/rezzle/toy/toyota.html

Xenon · 05-10-2003, 01:47 PM

If you're lowering the car more than 2" then you'll probably need Camber Correction kits.. But otherwise you should still be able to do alignment on the car..

boroEF · 05-10-2003, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deep
JIC.

ok deep, the man didnt say he was made of money now

boroEF · 05-10-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rezzle
Car manufacturers go through a whole bunch of engineering to make sure the steering geometry and spring rate are correct when they sell a car. Are you sure lowering it and messing up all that thought is what you want to do? I expect (know) you would get very satisfactory results when it comes to car handling by just upgrading your shock absorbers and purchasing better rubber.

This month alone in Calgary I have seen no less than 5 cars that have been lowered and none of them got the geometry right. Two cars the tires were riding on the corners instead of flat or ttwo cars were bouncing at about 3 HZ while driving at 110 KPH, and one bonehead even ripped off his front valence on a speedbump at the local co-op store.

Unless you really KNOW what you are doing I wouldn't f*ck with it.

uhhhh factory setup has potholes and safety in mind...hence most all factory cars are setup to understeer and have loads of travel just for our speed bumps and pot holes and ruts and what not.

in a performance perspective this is NOT what u want....and negative camber is a good thing considering how much flex the stupid factory bushings give!!

spring rates and ride height affect the handling of the car...and that's the stuff u want to alter when seeking higher performance