Spring Rates - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

***Chris Corolla S*** · 08-29-2003, 01:50 PM

So I was doing some research for springs for my 2001 Corolla with a mild drop(1-1.5") but stiff rates. I have heard really good stuff about the Tein S-Tech Springs for my car, but the site says the rates are about 3.2kg/mm front 2.5kg/mm rear. That didn't really float my boat. That is about the same as TRD USA springs and CarLowLa said I wouldn't be satisfied with those (he wasn't)and I aggree. He said that Apex were stiffer and H&R were the stiffest, he had them but wanted more and ended up with TRD Japan set-up (out of the question for me) with about 5.5 front and 4.4 rear. This about what I'm looking for. I went to the Apex site and they didn't list the rates so I emailed them to ask. Then I checked H & R, but they didn't list them either or have an address, so I called them. They said they don't make the spring rates available.....?!
I was like how am I supposed to comparison shop when you won't tell me the crucial specs?? He's like well we mesure the rates from the tire back and it can be affected by wheels/tires/schocks etc. and other manufacturers use different methods so it would be comparing apples to oranges. I'm like whatever. He said they just say that it is 25-30% stiffer than stock... Not like I even know the stock rates. But if I am really generous and say the stock rates are 2kg/mm in front then the H&Rs are 2x1.25=2.5 to 2x1.3=2.6 That is fucking weak ass. I thought they were supposed to be stiff but that isn't stiff.

Can anyone reccomend a spring manufacturer that I could research? (Just springs this time no coilovers) Looking for about an inch drop and 4-5.5kg/mm front rates. These are to go along with Tociko HPs. thanks
Chris

Lafora · 08-29-2003, 02:24 PM

Eibach

Cor_LOW_la · 08-29-2003, 03:07 PM

i think the H&R guy didn't know what he's talking about..

and i think the H&R springs got at least 3.5-4+ kg/mm
since the TRD USA/Eibach one is around 3.3kg/mm (im pretty sure)
and the H&R is way way way stiffer than the Eibach/TRD..

***Chris Corolla S*** · 08-29-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lafora
Eibach

The sportline is dropped to far for me and as far as I know the pro-kit is almost the same thing as the TRD springs, with like 3.2 front/2.4 back, similair to the Teins...

***Chris Corolla S*** · 08-29-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cor_LOW_la
i think the H&R guy didn't know what he's talking about..

and i think the H&R springs got at least 3.5-4+ kg/mm
since the TRD USA/Eibach one is around 3.3kg/mm (im pretty sure)
and the H&R is way way way stiffer than the Eibach/TRD..

Well I think that is just H&Rs official line. They say the springs are 25-30% stiffer than stock... Maybe that doesn't apply directly to the rates I don't know. Apparently they use some radically different mumbo-jumbo ceremony to calculate their rates so who knows

Cor_LOW_la · 08-29-2003, 04:51 PM

by the way... keep in mind that a progressive spring and a regular coil spring do make huge difference..

the Eibach/TRD US and the Apex are progressive springs.. which is soft at the initial and become stiffer anf stiffer when compressed.. and this is more to the comfort side.. which's i don't like.. :p

i'm not sure for the H&R..

***Chris Corolla S*** · 08-29-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cor_LOW_la
by the way... keep in mind that a progressive spring and a regular coil spring do make huge difference..

the Eibach/TRD US and the Apex are progressive springs.. which is soft at the initial and become stiffer anf stiffer when compressed.. and this is more to the comfort side.. which's i don't like.. :p

i'm not sure for the H&R..

yes I did know that the eibach an trd were prog. rate, didn't know apex was.
I have heard that prog. rate sucks balls on the track becasue it has harsh transitions under hard loading...
But seems like a good idea on the street...Still sometimes it's best not to try and get the best of both worlds.

boroEF · 08-29-2003, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S
So I was doing some research for springs for my 2001 Corolla with a mild drop(1-1.5") but stiff rates. I have heard really good stuff about the Tein S-Tech Springs for my car, but the site says the rates are about 3.2kg/mm front 2.5kg/mm rear. That didn't really float my boat. That is about the same as TRD USA springs and CarLowLa said I wouldn't be satisfied with those (he wasn't)and I aggree. He said that Apex were stiffer and H&R were the stiffest, he had them but wanted more and ended up with TRD Japan set-up (out of the question for me) with about 5.5 front and 4.4 rear. This about what I'm looking for. I went to the Apex site and they didn't list the rates so I emailed them to ask. Then I checked H & R, but they didn't list them either or have an address, so I called them. They said they don't make the spring rates available.....?!
I was like how am I supposed to comparison shop when you won't tell me the crucial specs?? He's like well we mesure the rates from the tire back and it can be affected by wheels/tires/schocks etc. and other manufacturers use different methods so it would be comparing apples to oranges. I'm like whatever. He said they just say that it is 25-30% stiffer than stock... Not like I even know the stock rates. But if I am really generous and say the stock rates are 2kg/mm in front then the H&Rs are 2x1.25=2.5 to 2x1.3=2.6 That is fucking weak ass. I thought they were supposed to be stiff but that isn't stiff.

Can anyone reccomend a spring manufacturer that I could research? (Just springs this time no coilovers) Looking for about an inch drop and 4-5.5kg/mm front rates. These are to go along with Tociko HPs. thanks
Chris

go to the apex-i japan website. they list spring rates in a chart..look for ae102 or something similar...ur rates will be the same if not close to the numbers they list. i was observing the entire chart one time and noticed that all apexi spring rates are pretty even front to back...and they commonly have the lowest spring rate of 5kg/mm. apexi is a good company to go with. dont bother with H&R, i had those...they are worse than stock. ur car would handle like ass.

boroEF · 08-30-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cor_LOW_la
i think the H&R guy didn't know what he's talking about..

and i think the H&R springs got at least 3.5-4+ kg/mm
since the TRD USA/Eibach one is around 3.3kg/mm (im pretty sure)
and the H&R is way way way stiffer than the Eibach/TRD..

the H&R rep was correct...H&R rates are simply based on stock. they advertise 15-25% stiffer....it means it is exactly 15-25% stiffer over the stock rates on both ends. they by no means enhance the handling of the vehicle.

if looking for springs, dont get the eibach either....i hear bad things about those, and they tend to sag over time(esp the rear, the rear rates are super low).

neuspeed race springs are very good, look into those. tein is supposed to be stiff as well....but never had experience with those.... i am just very impressed with apexi....they dont simply lower the car, they make it handle better! it's not something that every manufacture does these days.

oh and in addition to all the brands that i've mentioned above, dont hate on ractive. ractive coilovers for civic is 450lb/in all around...check it out for the corolla. 450 is a little stiff( what is it? 6.x kg/mm?) but it will make it drive very well. i know someone who ran with ractive springs in the rear of his car for track use....they performed well. but if ur gonna go with this brand, dont settle with using simply tokico blues/kyb gr2. they wont be able to handle the rates.

boroEF · 08-30-2003, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S

yes I did know that the eibach an trd were prog. rate, didn't know apex was.
I have heard that prog. rate sucks balls on the track becasue it has harsh transitions under hard loading...
But seems like a good idea on the street...Still sometimes it's best not to try and get the best of both worlds.

prog springs cant suck that much ass if even the integra type r comes factory with progressive rear springs. i'm sure they did that for a reason.

myself, along with a great number of other people track with progressive springs. i have no beef with them. as long as u have decent rates, it should be good enough for us amateur drivers. we are no schumachers...

boroEF · 08-30-2003, 12:05 AM

why is it that any thread regarding spring rates it is me that always has the most garbage to share?

Cor_LOW_la · 08-30-2003, 02:00 AM

by the way.. is Apex spring = Apexi???

actually if u have the cash.. i think these 4 are some perfect setup for Corolla..

1) TRD JDM Way-Do suspension (what i have) 5.5kg/mm front 4 or 4.4kg/mm rear..

2) Tanabe Sustec S-Zero dampner kit -- u can choose your own spring rates.. but optimum'd be 5-6g/mm i think

3) Tein type HA -- 5kg/mmfront 4 kg/mm rear

4) JIC magic -- adjustable dampner rate.. no idea about spring rate..

why i say these are perfect coz. they are all a full kit.. the spring/strut combo would be perfect

.. no bounce no bottom out and will last long..

ya.. some coilover sleeves and some springs are good.. but if you're looking for sth like 4-5 kg/mm.. you'll have a hard time finding the sturt for it..

all i know avaliable for Corolla are KYB GR2 and Tokico Blue.. but both of them won't handle the stiffness of 4-5kg/mm..
u're gonna look for some short travel short stroke struts... but i don't see any for our car out there.. maybe KYB type SR??