I plan to use this thread as an advanced planning thread, as well as hopefully a valuable resource towards others who are looking to make their Gen 2's into 3S-FTE monsters.
I'm going to try and curb as much reposting as possible, so I'll cut to the chase of it all. In August I plan on ripping everything out of my motor now, rebuilding it, and then turbocharging it. My reasons for making this post are simple, allow the most information onto the site in one place. I'd like to get all these item's answered/discussed without too much hassle. Here are the technical issues that I wish to cover in this thread:
A. Transmission - Since the new found power in the engine will more than likely blow the OEM I4 tranny, how likely would it be to fit a V6 tranny onto the I4? I believe I've read about it somewhere, of course this may all be hopes and dreams. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the 3SGE/3SGTE trannies would bolt right up. What kind of issues are there concerning ECU/throttle set-up's and all?
B. Intake/BOV issues - A BOV/BPV is an absolute must have with a turbo application to keep the turbo alive. Hopefully we all know this fact. However what confuses me is that if we were to recycle the compressed air that blows off back into the turbo, wouldn't we just be creating a constant loop, and not allowing the pressure to bleed? Someone who knows *A LOT* about turbo's and BOV's should more than likely cover this item. I can't find too much about BPV's and how the exact science works.
C. Fuel Management/All that funky jazz - This is a hazy subject for just about anyone I'd suppose. Maybe some pointers to a few good tip/faq sites would be great to use.
I'll add more to this later on, I believe this may be enough for now to cover. As I said I really would like this to become a "library" of sorts for all the people who come in and ask how to turbo a Gen 2. Perhaps having a full thread discussing everything is a good thing to have to point them to, therefore I've created this.
- Josh
__________________
First Gen 2 with a Flowmaster
Shot transmission, but it's all good.
Originally posted by 90CamryDx3SFE A. Transmission - Since the new found power in the engine will more than likely blow the OEM I4 tranny, how likely would it be to fit a V6 tranny onto the I4? I believe I've read about it somewhere, of course this may all be hopes and dreams. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the 3SGE/3SGTE trannies would bolt right up. What kind of issues are there concerning ECU/throttle set-up's and all?
Manual tranny from a gen 2 V6.
3S-GE tranny from Celica.
e153 tranny from MR2 Turbo (you have to do some modifications to it) or e153 from a V6 Camry / Solara.
ECU issues: If your current tranny is auto you have to do some rewiring.
Quote:
However what confuses me is that if we were to recycle the compressed air that blows off back into the turbo, wouldn't we just be creating a constant loop, and not allowing the pressure to bleed?
The pressure does get bleed, but it bleeds back into the intake after the AFM and before the turbo.
Under vacuum a bypass / recirc. valve is normally open. When you go under boost it closes and when you let off the gas it opens up.
Quote:
C. Fuel Management/All that funky jazz - This is a hazy subject for just about anyone I'd suppose. Maybe some pointers to a few good tip/faq sites would be great to use.
Easiet thing to do is use a FMU.
You can also use additional injectors and a AIC (additional injector controller).
Originally posted by 90CamryDx3SFE
A. Transmission - Since the new found power in the engine will more than likely blow the OEM I4 tranny, how likely would it be to fit a V6 tranny onto the I4? I believe I've read about it somewhere, of course this may all be hopes and dreams. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the 3SGE/3SGTE trannies would bolt right up. What kind of issues are there concerning ECU/throttle set-up's and all?
If you have an automatic, it will wear out quickly w/ lots of power. Get a tranny cooler and change your fluid to synthetic if you plan on keeping it alive. The manual transmissions that 88LE mentioned are all good options. The E153 tranny is heavy, so a tranny from the 3s-ge is probably the best solution. (that's what I'll do when I rebuild/replace my tranny)
Quote:
B. Intake/BOV issues - A BOV/BPV is an absolute must have with a turbo application to keep the turbo alive. Hopefully we all know this fact. However what confuses me is that if we were to recycle the compressed air that blows off back into the turbo, wouldn't we just be creating a constant loop, and not allowing the pressure to bleed? Someone who knows *A LOT* about turbo's and BOV's should more than likely cover this item. I can't find too much about BPV's and how the exact science works.
A blow-off or bypass vavle is not absolutely necessary for a turbo car (see the early turbo Nissan 300zx and others). It definitely extend turbo life and hose coupler life for higher boost situations. I would run one at the very least because it sounds cool. The idea behind a recirculating valve is that you don't want to suck in more air than your air flow meter sees. By putting the air that the turbo is compressing back before the turbo (but after the air metering device) the correct amount of air is metered AND the pressure is relieved. The turbo will slow down on its own due to the drag of the air its pumping.
Quote:
C. Fuel Management/All that funky jazz - This is a hazy subject for just about anyone I'd suppose. Maybe some pointers to a few good tip/faq sites would be great to use.
This is the MOST important part of a reliable turbo setup. It is NOT a fuzzy subject and is something that you should really understand before turboing your car. As soon as I get the chance, I will replace the rrfpr on my turbo camry with real engine management so that it doesn't blow the engine (that's for you, 88LE... )
-Charlie
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2003 Impreza WRX Wagon 5spd - 2.2L stroker + other goodies
1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd - SV25/ST205 hybrid
1990 Camry 3S-GTE 5spd - parted out / junked
1990 Camry DX 3S-FE 5spd - The original white90dx; gone but not forgotten
Some folks have turbod their 3s-fe in Danmark. I remember the readings were like 250hp with stock internals, no boost mentioned This was in ~95 Carina E. With stock tranny :o
Re: Re: Advanced planning thread: Turbo your 3S-FE
Quote:
Originally posted by white90dx The idea behind a recirculating valve is that you don't want to suck in more air than your air flow meter sees. By putting the air that the turbo is compressing back before the turbo (but after the air metering device) the correct amount of air is metered AND the pressure is relieved.
The other reasons are smog, noise, and temporary rich condition.
When you run a blow off valve (bov) on a car equipped with a AFM you run into a temporary rich conditon when the bov blows off. The reason is because your blowing off air that has already been metered by the afm.
This causes the car to stumble or even stall, but you can get around it by adjusting the bov.
Originally posted by Zomeone Some folks have turbod their 3s-fe in Danmark. I remember the readings were like 250hp with stock internals, no boost mentioned This was in ~95 Carina E. With stock tranny :o
There is no way that can be true. Look at the the dude on Camryman.org who ran 10psi for 2 weeks and melted a piston.
the 3sfe would eat itself and its trans at 250 hp.
hmmmm...I have stock internals ('96 5s-fe) with the bov set for 10psi. It's been this way for about 8 months (~9,000 miles) with no problems whatsoever.
People are quick to say you can't do this...you can't do that...the 3 or 5s-fe engine is weak. Honestly, I'd like to know where people get this from. I have seen just the opposite.
Now keep in mind, I am tuning it carefully. I added an MSD BTM...only to remove it later since it wasn't needed. I added an Aeromotive adj FPR and a 255lph Walbro pump. Then I measured with a wideband O2 sensor to get the AFR close. I went back to near stock pressure since the exhaust temps were a bit higher and I lost power.
So now I have custom wiring for the MSD box and the adj FPR (or FMU as you guys call them) and Walbro pump installed and they're not doing much.
Really, these engines are nicely setup and they happily take a turbo. If you get much beyond 8, 9 psi, I think you have to make significant changes...but not before that.
Oh and BTW, I changed the ATF to synthetic and added another cooler. Hasn't given me any problems yet. The tranny has almost 30,000 miles on it with the turbo. The car has 106,000 miles on it.
Even though the tranny is doing fine, I am swapping it to a manual in the spring. Just seems to go better with the turbo.
I am thinking of turbocharging my 3s-fe too, although, NA would still be nicver But, the questions, would 3s-ge head bolt-on to 3s-fe block with no problems? And, would the internals from, for example, 3s-gte fit in the F block? So I would have 3s-ge head and 3s-gte internals in 3s-fe block, with these I should have almost 3s-gte right? Also the intake would be taken from the 3s-ge.. Anyone ever treid to do anything like this?
The problem is the laws here I can't change the engine to 3s-gte, but I can change the parts (exept the block)..
I have heard that the blocks wtih 3s-fe and 3s-ge are quite the same, but the gte block would be thicker? Only rumours and "might be's" but is there any 100% sure information about this? Well, I won't be running that much boost anyways on my FWD tho
So, swapping the head and internals should be possible if I get a good aftermarket ECU..
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"Skoolin' the unlearned!"
This was in ~95 Carina E. With stock tranny :o
But, the questions, would 3s-ge head bolt-on to 3s-fe block with no problems? And, would the internals from, for example, 3s-gte fit in the F block? So I would have 3s-ge head and 3s-gte internals in 3s-fe block, with these I should have almost 3s-gte right? Also the intake would be taken from the 3s-ge.. Anyone ever treid to do anything like this?
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