water injetor kit

[4rnr541]

i am looking at the water injector kit at urd. has anyone installed this unit? i am wondering if it is neccissary at all. i have a cold air intake on it, i know the manifold will still get hot but hot enough to rate one of these, i dont know. maybe some one can explain. my set up when complete will be supercharged with a genIII, cold air intake, port and polished heads, header w/ cat back exhaust, and the fuel system from urd. i might possibly rebuild the heads and put diffrent cams in. what do you guys think!!!

[mcelligott]

You wont need it unless you have a turbo.

[4rnr541]

what would having a turbo have to do with it. the injector kit cooles the compressor discharge temperature with a mist of water. the fact that the vehical is turbo charged or supercharged should have nothing to do with it, they both compress air. i am putting a new fuel kit in it and possibly a small S/C pully as well as the other stuff i stated so i am not sure if the injector kit would even be applicable.

[mcelligott]

It's more efficient on a turbo - I think you can only use an injection kit for up to 8#'s of boost on an s/c.

[88 LE]

^ Turbos are more efficient at compressing air vs. a supercharger. But what does that have to do with water injection?

And what does the amount of boost have to do with it?

Sounds like you need to read up on water injection and how turbos and superchargers work.

[silverstreakin]

^^ agreed. when you need water injection is the point where you are running at the limits of blowing the engine. does some really neat things to the engine

[4rnr541]

all right; for all of you that think i dont know what i am talking about here is what my concern with this is..............................

the boost has nothing to do with the water cooler i know that already, the water cooler cools the over all CDT or compressor discharge temperature creating a denser A/F mixture in the cylinder. the nozzle is placed right behind the throttle body, the fluid then gets vaporized by the heat of the compression in the supercharger. my thought on this is if i am already running a cold air intake and port my heads will that be enough to displace the heat created? like i said i plan on reoutfitting my fuel system with 318cc injectors and a 190 lph pump, the exhaust system is a given that it all be redone and i will be having my EUC done when i am done with the bolt on mods. all of this will create an outstanding amount of heat that will cause a loss in over all power. i was suggested to buy it but at almost 1000 it would be nice to know if it is even worth my time!!!!!!!!!

[chronoti]

if you dont have forced induction then no.

http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

there a diy for alcohol same idea and alcohol would work better for you.

[4rnr541]

yeah its supercharged already with a genIII TRD

[mcelligott]

Read this entire article and please dont judge my knowledge on turbos and superchargers...I was trying to help you by letting you know you cant use them over 8 psi on a s/c. But if you want to be an asshole, feel free.

Why alcohol injection?



Alcohol is a safe additive to use. Since the 1960s, all cars have been manufactured with alcohol resistant hoses, connections, O-rings, seals, and plastics. This was necessary because of the popular use of alcohol base gas line antifreeze additives, and the use of ethanol mixes in automotive fuel. But, the biggest advantage of alcohol injection is that it is an "on demand" system for both the street, or strip. Especially for street applications, the realities are that, for most drivers, less than 2 percent of the time high turbo boost is actually used. So, the argument becomes: Why have the fuel tank filled with high price race gas, or add a couple of gallons of toluene with every tank, when the higher knock threshold protection is only needed for those relatively brief events closer to WOT? Tuning with alcohol injection only for those boost levels when it's really needed to raise the knock threshold (higher octane equivalent) also accounts for the small quantities of alcohol consumed.

Tuning to the edge of the envelope quickly bumps into the knock limits of the fuel being used. Alcohol injection can increase the knock threshold of 91-93 octane pump gas to the equivalent of the range of 104-108 octane. The relatively small amounts of alcohol injected doesn't increase the total fuel energy much, and only adds small amounts of additional oxygen. While methanol alcohol has an equivalent octane rating of 108, the main effect is the result of large, rapid evaporatative cooling of the intake air. Also, small amounts of water added help control the flame front in the cylinder for smooth, controlled cylinder pressure rises at ignition (the opposite of knock). This effect also shows up as a very significant reduction of 60 to 100 degees (F) of the EGT at WOT. The cooling effect of alcohol is also used on supercharged (up to 8 pounds boost) engines with no IC. The effect is like adding an intercooler. Alcohol injection is a very mature technology that has been in widespread use, especially since WWII, with lots of experience, and data availble. There is no need to re-invent the wheel, or plow any new ground. It is a reliable, cost effective way, to raise the knock threshold of the fuel being used. So, the answer to the question: "Why alcohol injection?" is simply "Why not?"

[4rnr541]

i was refering to another post, i didnt challenge you the other guys did, dont want to stike a nerve

[4rnr541]

that is a good artical, i appreciate the knowlegde and will look further into that system as well. thanks all for your help

[bgrieger]

Painfully of course, methol alcohol corrodes aluminum on contact. A couple of Surpa owners have run it. Good results, with a downside.

Water injection is by far the easier of the 2 BTW...and won't corrode the parts. Now, IMO, it's a bandaid. Get a beter intercooler/aftercooler setup and you reduce charge temperatures further safely. Run better fuel/use a fuel computer and increase the richness. All will reduce temps and detonation risk. If you are relying on water/alcohol to save the engine, the one time you really need it a switch will fail, you'll run out of fluid, a nozzle will clog etc...IMO, you introduce more risks to the system. But if you really want the ragged edge of tuning for race/dynoqueen status, feel free!


Bob

Bob