I'm new to Toyota tuning and would like to know more about tuning options for the Beams
3s-ge engine found on the Altezza RS200. From my research so far it seems only Tom's and TRD makes aftermarket parts for it. I would like some more info on this engine and it's capabilities. From the bore and stroke, it has a square design like the K20 engines found in the new civic type Rs. Judging from this geometry, this engine should be both rev happy as well as torquey. Sounds like a good motor to go down the NA route.
I would like to find out the aftermarket support for tuning this engine and which route is easiest FI or NA. I have a feeling the drawback to tuning this engine will be aftermarket support. Or perhaps i've not searched the right places.
Where can i find performance upgrades for this car at reasonable prices?
Are the Variable timing disabled in built up engines?
With the dual variable cam timing, are there any aftermarket ECUs that could cope with it?
Heh... it's always funny when people simply say "go turbo"... that's just the easy way out. It's pretty sad that Toyota people think Toyota tuning starts and stops with turbo engines...
There are plently of tuning parts for the BEAMS 3SGE, but most if not all of it is in Japan. The beams 3SGE is a great engine for n/a build-up like you say with a rich racing background, and the basic stuff should be looked at first (intake, header, exhaust). From there, you can look at Toda Racing, which makes race quality stuff, for pistons, valvetrain, camshafts, etc. As for aftermarket computer control of VVT-i... as good as VVT-i is, it's not a system that is designed to make big power. It's designed to improve torque and efficiency. Removing it and going with adjustable cam gears with good tuning can make more power than relying on the stock cam timing. To add to that, there aren't many standalone units that can possibly fully support VVT-i unless there is a specialized unit out there somewhere that can do it.
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Kwanza, I'm not sure if you directed that statement at me or not. However, I did not suggest he should boost, I simply stated that the only difference between a 3SGTE and a 3S-GE is the fact that the 3S-GTE is obviously turbocharged and has lower CR.
Beyond this, the bore and stroke are the same (pistons are mix and match), the cams should be the same (don't know about the beams, due to VVT-i), and so on.
All 3sgte internals will work aside from the obvious turbo (unless you buy a 3sgte manifold).
The pistons are high compression so the easiest and cheapest way to turbocharge this engine is to use a thicker headgasket. But i don't think the engine can see more than 8psi of boost. Using a thicker headgasket will bring the quench pads further away from the piston and this may induce detonation. It's quite a new engine with not many miles on it, just don't feel like fitting some forged low comp pistons in yet.
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I'd suggest getting some cams (just find 3sgte cams)
I just went to the TODA website, they didn't list any aftermarket cams for this engine. So, this 3sge engine does not have the variable lift mechanism like the honda vtec? In otherwords it does not feature the bigger lobe switchover at higher RPMS. My choice of aftermarket camshafts will be greatly reduced. As it is a street engine, running too high lift and duration will not be possible. Can someone clarify if they have the variable lift mechanism in this engine?
Quote:
There are plently of tuning parts for the BEAMS 3SGE, but most if not all of it is in Japan. The beams 3SGE is a great engine for n/a build-up like you say with a rich racing background, and the basic stuff should be looked at first (intake, header, exhaust). From there, you can look at Toda Racing, which makes race quality stuff, for pistons, valvetrain, camshafts, etc. As for aftermarket computer control of VVT-i... as good as VVT-i is, it's not a system that is designed to make big power. It's designed to improve torque and efficiency. Removing it and going with adjustable cam gears with good tuning can make more power than relying on the stock cam timing. To add to that, there aren't many standalone units that can possibly fully support VVT-i unless there is a specialized unit out there somewhere that can do it.
I've looked in toda's website, but they don't list parts for this engine. Maybe they do have it listed on their japanese version, though i'm not sure. Is this engine only featuring dual VVTi? If i were to go down the NA route, it will be so much nicer if it has the VVTLi. Without the variable lift, i won't be able to run aggressive camshafts and have a decent idle. I think disabling the variable timing mechanism will be the way to go, but i need more info on this.
Thanks guys for the info...keep them comming, really appreciate it lots!
Kwanza, I'm not sure if you directed that statement at me or not. However, I did not suggest he should boost, I simply stated that the only difference between a 3SGTE and a 3S-GE is the fact that the 3S-GTE is obviously turbocharged and has lower CR.
Beyond this, the bore and stroke are the same (pistons are mix and match), the cams should be the same (don't know about the beams, due to VVT-i), and so on.
Not sure if you know much about the BEAMS 3SGE, but its a very different engine from the previous 3SG(T)Es. Think of the F20C (Honda S2000 engine) and thats closer to what it is in terms of displacement and output, but torquier because of its square bore/stroke. I think Blitz makes an S/C for the Redtop and there is a company that makes a turbo kit for the Blacktop, aside from that, a Greddy PowerFC could be used to tune VVTi and VVTLi.
Kwanza, I'm not sure if you directed that statement at me or not. However, I did not suggest he should boost, I simply stated that the only difference between a 3SGTE and a 3S-GE is the fact that the 3S-GTE is obviously turbocharged and has lower CR.
Beyond this, the bore and stroke are the same (pistons are mix and match), the cams should be the same (don't know about the beams, due to VVT-i), and so on.
I apologize... it's not directly pointed towards you, but the entire community in general.
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Originally Posted by BeamsAlteZZA
I've looked in toda's website, but they don't list parts for this engine. Maybe they do have it listed on their japanese version, though i'm not sure. Is this engine only featuring dual VVTi? If i were to go down the NA route, it will be so much nicer if it has the VVTLi. Without the variable lift, i won't be able to run aggressive camshafts and have a decent idle. I think disabling the variable timing mechanism will be the way to go, but i need more info on this.
Thanks guys for the info...keep them comming, really appreciate it lots!
I'm pretty sure I've seen Toda list camshafts before for both versions of the BEAMS 3SGE. It may very well have been Japanese also. This is the only engine with dual VVT-i. It was the last production model of that engine also I believe and it came in a few different cars. Regardless whether or not Toda or some other company makes camshafts, you can always do custom grinds which sometimes is cheaper than buying new ones. It's also possible that the older 3SGE (non-VVT-i) camshafts may work, but that's pretty doubtful. Each generation of the 3SGE basically came with a different head. It is too bad that this engine never came with variable cam lift... cause that would be pretty sweet... but it's still a nice engine. Better than anything we have here in North America as far as Toyota's performance n/a engines go. To disable VVT-i, I believe there is an actual plug (VVT-i solenoid?) that actuates the VVT-i. Disconnect this plug (may cause CEL) and replace VVT-i camgears with adjustables. There will be no point in disabling them unless you're running some agressive camshafts and need more precise tuning with adjustable cam gears however, because the stock control is pretty good for most street applications.
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Does the BEAMS motor have the small or big intake port head?
It has a completely different head design from all of the previous... different intake manifold, ports, etc... so it wouldn't really fall under "bigport"/"smallport" because that mostly refers to TVIS or non TVIS. For the most part, all non-TVIS heads have smaller ports compared to TVIS intake ports.
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The BEAMS 3SGE is different from the previous generations therefore force induction potential is actually quite limited unless the internals are swapped. Have a look at this TRD Altezza http://translate.google.com/translat...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
down here in aussie we have been building and using this engine for racing for quite a few years now and with great success(after a few teething dramas)
these engines make great horse power in full race trim,with figures around the 320 crank horse power at 9000rpm.
as for the vvti,we have modified the factory cam gears and are still running this,and has proved to be very worth while as it picks up big amounts of HP in the mid range.running this engine with a MOTEC m800 allows you to control this to the finest degree and position the camshaft exactly where you want it at any given rev to maximise your power everywhere.
we have also built the celica/mr2 version of the beams with single vvti and have modified this inlet cam gear to use the vvti as well.all this has been learnt from the 20v race engines we have been building for the last almost 10 years inwhich we learnt how to still maintain the cam advance with BIG profile camshafts and obviously not hit a piston.
the engine that has made the biggest power is the 6 manual version of the altezza,there are quite a few differences in the cylinder heads between all these beams engines,so this one is where it is best to start.
anyway,for more detailed information or maybe even interest in purchasing one of these race engines,please email me.
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