i need some advice - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

letheal · 02-06-2005, 01:32 PM

I am ordering a 3sgte and have some serious questions just not "will it fit in my car" like i see on every fourm. and you all seem like you know your stuff.
my car is a 4th gen gts liftback. and i just need some ideas about this setup im going to try to use.

im planing on using the stock ecu on the car, i dont feel like doing a conversion so also im planing on using the 3sge intake manifold and 3sge head if i need to and possibly removing the tvis butterfly valves then using the 3sgte shortblock. im deffinatly going to use the 3sge tranny but i was wondering if the clutch from the 3sgte would work. also another large problem is going to be management. i have no idea what im going to do with this. i was planing on running the 3sgte injectors and an safc controler and a a btm to retard the timing but I would like to know if any of you have tryed to use megasquirt or if theres any ecu chipping software like uberdata and turboedit for toyota ecu's. i realy dont want to shell out for somthing like a motec for just runing around 11 psi. i realy dont want to use an FMU just because cars usualy end up running realy lean out of boost and its just entirely to inconsistant of an a/f to have any real stability in the system. also id like to know if any of you use the cams out of the 3sgte on the 3sge head if i do happen to swap the head on the 3sge. i have the 3sge out of my car right now and if any of you would like to talk to me on AIM about this my screename is the same as my username here. id appriciate any help i can get
thanks for your time and try not to flame me to bad for dubble posting

anuthaCamry · 02-06-2005, 01:38 PM

I don't know much about the 3sgte or 3sge, but I do know that the way the ignition timing works on a turbo is different than for a non-turbo and that the advance of a non-turbo enginge can damage a boosted one. I think that msd makes a ignition box especially for a turbos that will advance/retard spark advance.

Buena suerte!!

letheal · 02-06-2005, 01:42 PM

thats what a BTM is its a boost timing master and its made by MSD

.

anuthaCamry · 02-06-2005, 01:52 PM

I usually don't read that far down, sorry....

letheal · 02-06-2005, 01:54 PM

its all good

i just realy need some help with this.

letheal · 02-06-2005, 06:33 PM

does any one here run megasquirt or anything like that? if i did run megasquirt what would i have to do with the factory injector clips so i dont throw a cell for them or could i leave the injectors hooked up to the stock clips just dangling there not hooked up to a fuel rail or anything?......................................... ...

anuthaCamry · 02-06-2005, 09:02 PM

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

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I'm surprised that was even in my computer...

MIGHTY · 02-06-2005, 09:48 PM

#1 YES the engine bolts right in. #2 GE ECU wont fit. #3 GE head fat no,need major work. #4 GE tranny you will pop first time you drop the clutch. #5 I know you want to get this done asap but if you rush and go to cheap with this your goin to pop sumthing or crack it, and you will be paying more and more money to fix what you you rushed!!!

letheal · 02-06-2005, 10:22 PM

#1 i know the engine bolts in #2 both the 3sge and the 3sgte have the exact same block so the head will fit. #4 ive seen a 400hp set up on a stock 3sge tranny and ill still have the axles and tranny from the 3sgte sitting around for a spare but i highly doubt its going to break, ive seen 250hp pushed through honda d series trannys and the only problem with them is they break axles #4 why would i buy a jet chip. im talking real engine management. how could htey tune my car if they cant even hook it up to a wideband. i know what needs to be done in tuning so im not going to "crack" anything #5 i know what megasquirt is, i was wondering if anyone from here has ever used it

letheal · 02-06-2005, 10:27 PM

oh also i have a 3sge so the ecu's alredy in all i have to do is swap the sensors over

MIGHTY · 02-08-2005, 12:28 AM

youve got a great plan stick with it, nop ive nver used that before

Tommy · 02-08-2005, 12:47 AM

uh dude, the 3SGTE needs a 3SGTE ecu, sorry no way around it. completly different engine, come on think about it, the GTE has a turbo, the GE doesnt. the ecu regulates all the turbo stuff, (i know very technical but w/e)

Also, why are you going to use the GE's intake manifold?
Why do you want to use the GE's head? Are you keeping the GTE's turbo on there? if so, why would you use a head made for high compression with an engine made for lower compression?
Do you have the wiring harness for the GTE?

I really dont think you know what you are getting into. this isnt a honda, as you compaired it to. Just because it bolts in with no problems, doesnt mean it will run with no problems. trust me, i know, i did a USDM 3SFE ----> JDM 3SFE swap, same freakin motor, but still had more problems than you ever could think of.

The transmission i think is the least of your problems though.

With what you are saying, i think that you would end up using just the GTE's block and internals with all the GE's manifolds and head.

silverstreakin · 02-08-2005, 09:05 AM

ill agree, have the whole harness, hook the right ecu up. there is so much to worry about. timing, ignition. every thing that the gte ecu controls. remember also that the 3sgte in stock form tends to run a tad rich. not a bad deal, and i would say well worth the time spent.

as far as trannys, as far as i know, the 3sge was only put in only one gen us cars. 4th gen celica gts. the manual tranny on a 4th gen will bolt up to the the gte, but you will have to custom drill the tranny because of starter location. ge had the starter under the exhaust manifold. just something to keep in mind

edit, you have a 4th gen celica gts. you know about the tranny.

letheal · 02-08-2005, 09:26 AM

If i used the stock head the timing would be the same, turbo motors = high compression once boost comes on. The more cfm's they can flow the more power they'll make Its realy about lift and duration of the cams to control the velocity of the air coming into the cylinder. If i use the stock head with the 3sgte block all i will have to do is compensate for timing and fuel. and if i run megasquirt like im planing thats a tottaly stand alone engine management for fuel/spark so id be able to adjust any timing settings. Also if i used an safc i could control the injectors throughout the rpm band. the only problem with the afc is that is advances timing like crazy so you have to use a BTM to retard the timing and with an SAFC you have to retard the timing about .85º per pound. Hacking ECU's isint realy that hard. Ive alredy talked to a guy whos done this same setup on a 1st gen 3sge head with a 3sgte bottem end the 3sge running a 3sge ecu and a FMU to regulate fuel presure when boost comes on. I was just wondering if any of you use any other type of fuel management, it would realy save you all a big headache insted of trying to find all of the orignial sensors and swaping the ecu over. The 3sge tranny has been distrubuited world wide and was used in japan all the way through the 90's. Since no ones done anything like this here ill do a write up for you all on what I end up using for engine management. ill even tune it with a wideband and try to take some video.

CrawlingEye · 02-08-2005, 04:12 PM

I think you're under-estimating the task at hand;
You had initially said you were going to continue to use the same ECU with a megasquirt. Now you've realized that the megasquirt is a standalone EMS, but you're still saying you're going to use the megasquirt with an S-AFC to control the injectors.

I think you need to read before you buy and try things. The S-AFC doesn't touch injectors, it only affects the intake sensors. It simply alters the reading the ECU receives. You're not increasing mechanical injector flow or anything. Further more, if you have a megasquirt, why would you deal with 'faking out' the megasquirt? It's just more bullshit than you need. That's like saying you're going to buy an MSD Digital SCI but you're also going to run a Jacobs C4. At this rate, you might as well run the 3sgte head with the 3sge head.

People are giving you advice for a reason. Not to discourage you or anything, but simply to let you know that you need to do much more reading before you attempt this.

And for the record, the S-AFC II does not directly advance or retard timing at all. What the case is, is that if you richen, it will allow your car to run full advance, where-as if you lean, it may cut timing due to the fact that it's reading the air as being slightly sparser than it truly is. Running an S-AFC II is not something you should do if you're looking to increase or decrease timing. It's what it is, a fuel computer.

By the way, I hope you're aware that you need to actually make a megasquirt, it's not a store-bought item. With that said, good luck with your build.