Brake Balance (performance) - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

SmokingTires · 03-26-2005, 02:20 AM

Ok, so I am upgrading all of my brakes this week. My setup is on the way and will be here Monday.

I am wondering how to modify the brake balance to favor oversteer. Much like Stock cars/rally cars do. But I am not exactly sure how. Is it purely mechanical? Or is it a modification to the ABS computer? (I plan on disabling the ABS when I race).

Is there a way I can do it mechanically? Or do I need to modify the braking computer?

fredk · 03-26-2005, 04:56 PM

fill the ass end with cement, you might be close on 50-50

, the only way your going to get oversteer is put some tiny tires on the back end or disable the front brakes, these cars are way too front heavy to steer with the back end

SmokingTires · 03-26-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredk

fill the ass end with cement, you might be close on 50-50

, the only way your going to get oversteer is put some tiny tires on the back end or disable the front brakes, these cars are way too front heavy to steer with the back end

Thank you for whoring this thread.

Obviously you don't know "these cars" too well. The simple add of a RSB causes them to over steer. Now please only post if you have useful/realiztic information to add on the question asked.

About Performance Brake Balancing.

***bgrieger*** · 03-26-2005, 08:43 PM

Most bias adjusters play with the knee point, with the bias proportion being fixed. While you get a bias change from the rear, and can adjust to a certain extent where the new ratio kicks in, you can't change the porportion, so your desired oversteer conditions will always happen in any kind of hard braking, on the streets or otherwise. There are formulas out there (I don't have them offhand) that will let you calculate the braking forces applied front and rear based on piston diameter, swept area and rotor diameter, so you can calculate what is stock, what is rear, and what happens as you change those piston sizes, rotor diameter and swept area. You can then select a rear brake kit to match the fronts per stock porportions, or increase the porportion. The trick is, how much is too much, as this is a permenent setting also.

nort0188 · 04-05-2005, 07:11 PM

Trailbraking should do you just fine on a track at least... on the outside straight of the smaller oval at LaCrosse (sort of a slalom) I got the ass end of your car to come out. It scared the crap out of me cause I wasn't ready for it, but it came out. Might be a little tougher to do once you have your suspension and new tires though. I say leave the proportioning alone, get a RSB, and learn to swing it out as it is.

SmokingTires · 04-06-2005, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nort0188

Trailbraking should do you just fine on a track at least... on the outside straight of the smaller oval at LaCrosse (sort of a slalom) I got the ass end of your car to come out. It scared the crap out of me cause I wasn't ready for it, but it came out. Might be a little tougher to do once you have your suspension and new tires though. I say leave the proportioning alone, get a RSB, and learn to swing it out as it is.

The problem now is getting a RSB... Sean at CTMotorsports is going out of business, and can't get his Whiteline order through. So I don't know of any other connections to get one. I would do that even before my tires if I could. It's within my price range right now.

***bgrieger*** · 04-06-2005, 08:02 AM

You can order from whiteline directly...

Pineapple · 04-06-2005, 12:42 PM

Add a proportional valve to change brake bias to the rear. Raise rear end a bit higher. Stiffer rearend suspension.

CrawlingEye · 04-06-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTiresV6

The problem now is getting a RSB... Sean at CTMotorsports is going out of business, and can't get his Whiteline order through. So I don't know of any other connections to get one. I would do that even before my tires if I could. It's within my price range right now.

Sean can't order through whiteline any more? I was pretty sure he could still get whiteline parts. I just ordred my Tokico's through him.

I know whiteline's funny with things, but that's pretty strange.

SmokingTires · 04-07-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple

Add a proportional valve to change brake bias to the rear. Raise rear end a bit higher. Stiffer rearend suspension.

I am looking at H&R drop springs right now. They have a 1.3" front and 1.25" read drop. Small difference

How would I go about adding a proportional valve, and where would I go about buying one to for my 92 V6?

88 LE · 04-07-2005, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTiresV6

How would I go about adding a proportional valve, and where would I go about buying one to for my 92 V6?

It goes in between the brake master cylinder and front or rear brakes (depending on which one you want to adjust).

http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-...1-PV/index.asp

http://www.wilwood.org/ds488.pdf

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp

terrastrife · 04-07-2005, 07:17 AM

remove ya front sway bar wont cost a thing

SmokingTires · 04-08-2005, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrastrife

remove ya front sway bar wont cost a thing

But it would cause horrible handling.

88LE: I'm assuming I add it to the rear to increase rear braking? Or is it opposite? And would you personally suggest this as a good safe way to do it? The site says "quick", so it makes me nervous about quality/safety.

88 LE · 04-08-2005, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTiresV6

88LE: I'm assuming I add it to the rear to increase rear braking? Or is it opposite?

Opposite.

The valve decreases the line pressure. So in your case, you would install the valve between the master cylinder and front brakes (to decrease the line pressure to the front brakes).

Wilwood doesn't recommend decreasing the pressure to the front brakes though (probably for safety reasons). It says so in the installation instructions (pdf file).

Quote:

And would you personally suggest this as a good safe way to do it? The site says "quick", so it makes me nervous about quality/safety.

Wilwood makes top notch stuff, so I wouldn't worry about the quality.

As for safety, I don't know. E-mail Wilwood and ask them.

(805) 388-1188

sales@wilwood.com

***bgrieger*** · 04-08-2005, 09:11 AM

If you are running a 4 wheel disk setup, put the wilwood adjuster in in place of the factory bias valve. When running full pressure, you can't get more than that, and you could dial it back for more normal street use. Ensure that it actually plays with pressure though and not just bias. Bias adjusters again only adjust the knee point at which the pressure change occurs.