Carnauba, Sealants, Polishes

[eddie926]

Been doing a lot of reading on here about Carnaubas vs. Sealants.

I'm currently doing detailing on my cars and am trying the Pinnacle XMT polishes followed by their XMT Glaze, followed by Liquid Souveran. First time I've tried these products.

First car I did looked great right off the bat, but I can tell that the Liquid Souveran isn't lasting very long (I can tell it's degrading after only a few weeks) and it seems to me like the car is getting dirty faster than normal, like the Souveran is attracting and holding dust/dirt.

After reading about Carnauba vs. Sealants, I want to try a sealant on the same car and see if it holds up better and if the car stays cleaner between washings. I love detailing, but I currently don't have time to wax my family vehicles every 3 or 4 weeks, so I want something longer lasting.

Questions:

Do I need to strip the Liquid Souveran wax off before I apply a sealant in order for this to be a good test? Or do sealants have a "cleaning" effect that take the wax off anyway? If strip, what's the best thing. Wash with dishwashing liquid?

I saw on Autogeek.com that they said Meguiars doesn't recommend layering NXT Tech Wax over top of Carnauba because it cleans it off to a certain extent. They did however, suggest that you could layer Carnauba over top of NXT to get an extra deep shine. While I understand the concept here, if Carnauba doesn't last as long and it attracts dust/dirt, wouldn't you be defeating some of the purpose of using a sealant by layering Carnauba over it?

Also, am I correct in assuming that you can mix and match polishes and waxes/sealants. i.e. it doesn't matter what polish you use versus what wax/sealant you follow it with?

Finally, these Pinnacle XMT polishes seem good, but they're the first thing I've tried with my Porter Cable 7424. Has anybody used them, and/or do you recommend anything that's better?

[PolishAndWax]

Originally Posted by eddie926

Been doing a lot of reading on here about Carnaubas vs. Sealants.

I'm currently doing detailing on my cars and am trying the Pinnacle XMT polishes followed by their XMT Glaze, followed by Liquid Souveran. First time I've tried these products.

First car I did looked great right off the bat, but I can tell that the Liquid Souveran isn't lasting very long (I can tell it's degrading after only a few weeks) and it seems to me like the car is getting dirty faster than normal, like the Souveran is attracting and holding dust/dirt.

After reading about Carnauba vs. Sealants, I want to try a sealant on the same car and see if it holds up better and if the car stays cleaner between washings. I love detailing, but I currently don't have time to wax my family vehicles every 3 or 4 weeks, so I want something longer lasting.

Questions:

Do I need to strip the Liquid Souveran wax off before I apply a sealant in order for this to be a good test? Or do sealants have a "cleaning" effect that take the wax off anyway? If strip, what's the best thing. Wash with dishwashing liquid?

I saw on Autogeek.com that they said Meguiars doesn't recommend layering NXT Tech Wax over top of Carnauba because it cleans it off to a certain extent. They did however, suggest that you could layer Carnauba over top of NXT to get an extra deep shine. While I understand the concept here, if Carnauba doesn't last as long and it attracts dust/dirt, wouldn't you be defeating some of the purpose of using a sealant by layering Carnauba over it?

Also, am I correct in assuming that you can mix and match polishes and waxes/sealants. i.e. it doesn't matter what polish you use versus what wax/sealant you follow it with?

Finally, these Pinnacle XMT polishes seem good, but they're the first thing I've tried with my Porter Cable 7424. Has anybody used them, and/or do you recommend anything that's better?

Just my two cents...I'm far from being an expert on carnaubas versus sealants, but if I am going to 'test' anything, I always strip off whatever is there first, be it tire dressing, wax etc. I like to start with a clean slate to limit the variables.

Not all carnaubas attract dirt and dust. The stuff I sell does not. In fact, it has an anti-static base, so it actually helps repel dirt and dust.

Polish and wax have two separate jobs and if the polish is pure polish and the wax is pure wax, I can't see how mixing and matching brands could have any ill effects, unless the polish is leaving something behind (some have fillers). If the polish leaves something behind that the 'other brand's' wax or sealant has trouble adhering to, maybe there would be a problem.

Again, just my two cents.

[OCDetails]

Polishes are designed to clean the paint and remove swirls. It is actually sort of an overused term for a lot of different products. When people talk about 'polish' they are usually refering to either products that clean or products that remove swirls.

'Wax' is another overused term. It has been used to describe everything from glazes to sealants. Real wax is something that has carnauba in it. Carnauba, solvents, oils, fillers, and all sorts of stuff. Waxes are the stuff that make your car look really wet and add lots of depth to the appearance.

Sealants are synthetic products that are more durable than standard waxes or glazes. They form a much tighter bond with the surface and last two or three times longer than any traditional carnauba wax. Even the best waxes only last around 6 to 8 weeks, so some people just need the added durability of a sealant.

The thing about these products is that you don't necessarily need to use them all on the same car. Obviously to properly detail the car you would wash and clay it, but the polishing is something that will changed based on the needs of the paint. Perhaps it just needs a mild polish to prepare the surface for the wax/sealant. Sort of like a primer. Or perhaps the paint is really messed up and you need something a little stronger to cut the swirls or remove oxidation. Either way, the polishing step should only be done after claying the car to make sure that you have removed all the contamination and you won't be just knocking off the top with your polisher. Needless to say, if the polish can remove oxidation or swirls, then it will also remove any wax or sealant on the surface.

After polishing you need to decide if you are going to use a sealant or a wax. If you go for a sealant then just remember that most of them need 12 to 24 hours to cure properly before adding additional layers. Some are set up to instantly cure, but most need that cure time. They are different than a wax and aren't just creating a shell. You need to give them time to bond to the paint. It is this bonding that is going to keep you from being able to use a sealant on top of a wax. You can use a wax on top of the sealant (after proper cure time has passed) but sealants will not bond to a wax. So if you decide to use both then make sure you use the sealant first. You don't necessarily have to use top a sealant with a wax, so don't go crazy with layers just because you read about people doing it. Detailing is an art and every car and product will react differently to light and insprie you to either add to the appearance or just maintain the level that you like.

NXT Tech Wax is a synthetic sealant that will not bond with a wax. However, it also has microabrasives in it that will remove any wax on the surface anyway, so it doesn't really matter. It isn't a product that you can layer on top of anything. It is sort of a light polish and sealant all in one. I'm not typically a fan of all in one polish/sealant products, but the NXT Tech Wax does a fair job of both.

One last thing. People who layer products aren't usually concerned with durability. Personally I couldn't care less for durability most of the time. I am out "waxing" my car every few weeks anyway, so whether the product lasts for 6 weeks or 6 months doesn't really matter. I polish the paint every three months anyway, so nothing really has a chance to wear off my car. People who layer products are most concerned about appearance. How does it look under all that sealant and wax is the only question on our minds. We save durability concerns for the winter when we don't want to be waxing our cars in twenty below zero weather.

Hopefully that helps. I kind of forgot what the question was halfway through writing all that. lol

[1883atlantics]

I just got done using my PC 7424 with the Pinnacle XMT line polish 1, 2 and Glaze on my wife's dark blue 07 Civic sedan. I used The Edge pads. Everything was easy to apply and came out looking very nice. Using the PC really helped out and the Pinnacle products are worth the money IMO. I got mine from AutoGeek.net as well. I have wanted to try the Souveran (sp?) wax but haven't gotten around to it, and probably will NOT do it now that the OP states it attracts dust/dirt. That is one thing that really annoys me with the wife's dark colored car -- it will look fantastic for 2 days and then you can just see the dust sitting there in the bright sunshine when I put layers of wax on. So far we've had minimal dusting with the Glaze from Pinnacle but I feel the finish would pop more with a coating of high-quality wax (back to the dusting and the cycle repeats so I don't do it).
Jeff

[eddie926]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I really appreciate it. I'll post some pics after I've finished my detailing.

[OCDetails]

Pretty much all carnauba waxes attract dust. It is the oils in the wax that make the car look so good. Those oils hold on to the dust and can somewhat attract it. There are sealants out there that actually behave as an anti-static and help repel dust. Klasse Sealant Glaze is one of them. I wouldn't worry too much about the dust though. With a black car you really aren't going to be able to avoid it. For the looks that Pinnacle Souveran gives black I'd say it is worth it. Another great product that I've recently started using on black is Danase Wet Glaze. It is a synthetic product despite the word 'glaze' in the title. It looks outstanding on black.

[1883atlantics]

^^ Thanks for the photos!! The Acura looks poor by comparison (bottom lip), but the end result on cars such as the 300 looks very good. I just don't like the wait-around-for 12-to-24-hours stuff for sealants. Not to mention, my wife can't go 24hrs w/o driving her car! lol

Jeff

[OCDetails]

Originally Posted by 1883atlantics

^^ Thanks for the photos!! The Acura looks poor by comparison (bottom lip), but the end result on cars such as the 300 looks very good. I just don't like the wait-around-for 12-to-24-hours stuff for sealants. Not to mention, my wife can't go 24hrs w/o driving her car! lol

Jeff

The cure time isn't for no driving. That is just the amount of time you need to wait before you put another coat on. You can take it out and drive it as soon as you buff all the sealant off. I think the misconception is that the car has to stay covered in a garage overnight or something if you use a sealant. It's really just like a wax except it lasts longer and is a little more picky about the surface you apply it to.