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Considering buying a 2nd gen...

50K views 914 replies 22 participants last post by  Kingdom934 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello. I've owned two cars in the past; a used 2008 Toyota Yaris (that I only owned for five months before totaling it in a car crash), then a new 2011 Mazda2, which I totally loved every day until it was repossessed and immediately auctioned due to financial troubles on my part earlier this year. I've been without a car now for three months in the most car-dependent state on the planet, and yeah, it sucks.

So now that I'm steadily employed and relatively financially stable again, I need another car, and fast. I absolutely do not want to deal with monthly payments, aside from auto insurance and regular maintenance/gas. At first, I was looking at 4th generation Camrys, since they're still everywhere and those were the last generation of said reliable car before all the cars started getting really fat and bloated (high beltines, anyone?). But the average price of those Camrys is too high for me to save up for at the moment ($2300-$3300). I also looked at used 2000s cars to buy outright, but most under $2500 are full of problems. So I opted for pre-1997 cars for less than $2000.

That's where the 2nd generation Camry comes in. Here in Southern California, especially in L.A. and vicinity, there are still quite a few of these 1987-1991 Camrys zipping around, and with no rust. In my city alone, there are probably a dozen or so of them on the roads (white seems to be the popular color of choice). I see enough of them daily to where I feel they have proven themselves to be sturdy, reliable vehicles for their age. I see just as many 1986-89 and 1990-93 Honda Accords and Civics here, but those are stolen even more, and I don't need that. I also could have opted for the just-as-good-if-not-better 3rd generation Camrys (1992-1996), but they're too round and ordinary-looking for my taste. The 2nd gen Camrys got it right IMO, not too boxy but not too round either.

So I've been doing extensive research on these 2nd gen Camrys every single day for the past month now, and there are over 100 of them for sale locally on craigslist. Many have between 100K and 200k miles; I've even seen some with 300,000+ miles on them (!!!). So I'm currently saving up about $1500 for one, that seems like a reasonable price to me. Now I am not a mechanic nor am I very mechanically inclined with cars (the most I've done is change the air filter on my 2011 Mazda2), however I'm willing to learn what is needed to keep the car running smoothly. In fact, it kinda seems like it would make me feel more personally attached to the car, thus making it even more special. I would not typically drive long distances in the car, I just need to get to my job and college (all within a few miles) and occasionally my friend's house and stuff like that. Local driving, mostly. However I should mention that the roads here are pretty crappy in general. We also have many, many curvy & twisty roads, often with long, gradual as well as very steep grades/inclines. I hope the Camry can handle it.

I do love listening to music, oh man do I love me some good tunes. So I've already looked into Pioneer audio systems for the car just in case, as I don't believe the stock stereo/speakers will do the bass any real justice.

As for safety, to be honest, I'm not all that concerned. Post-1985 cars I'm not worried about. It has just enough for me, I'm fairly minimal in my preferences in a car. All I need is a good sound system, A/C and the typical power steering/etc and I'm set. I'm 23, by the way.

So tl;dr - are these good cars? Is $1500 worth it? Any advice/tips/recommendations/etc? Thank you.
 
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#2 ·
The Gen2 were were not the best in audio field or any 80's car. Running 4" in front and 6.5" (ish) in the rear, it didn't do much in the lower end sound range. The Gen3 with the 6.5" in the front and 6X9 in the back is much better. Some people can opt that it sounds pretty decent though, but I never had a Gen2 to test my ears on.

For a Gen2 $1500 is about right, but for that price, I would want to have all the power options (LE Trim) and body in reasonably good condition. V6/I4, but the V6 does have a weak point with the transmission with the reverse usually failing first unless proper maintenance was done to the transmission.
 
#3 ·
Yes they are good cars, but you need to consider the fact that the newest 2nd Gens will soon turn 25 years old. It's a good thing you want to learn how to fix things yourself, you'll find a lot of support from this forum.

If you can drive stick I'd recommend you buy a 4 cyl manual car for fuel economy, reliability and ease of maintenance.

If you don't have tools of your own you will need to buy metric sockets and wrenches. You'll use that 10 mm socket a lot.

Inspect the vehicle before you buy it. Bring a flashlight with you. Inspect the rubber hoses, check for leaking fluids, integrity of steering parts and suspension. How the car performs mechanically is more important that its looks. 1500$ is a fair price for a well-maintained 2nd gen.

When you finally decide to buy the car get the Toyota Factory Service Manual and study it. Do your own fluid changes and tune-ups. Come to the forum, read threads, ask questions, spend some time here. You will get to know your car and once you know how your car works it can save your ass, believe me. If money is tight, resist the urge to modify and customize your ride. Keep your money for maintenance and repairs.

The more you work on them the more you get attached. Yes they're reliable, rather safe for their age, extremely well built and engineered, get decent mpg... just perfect cars IMO.
 
#4 ·
If the Gen1/Gen2 didn't rust out as they do, I would probably be still driving my Gen1! So freaking easy to work on and get pretty good space and gas mileage. Of course, it won't win any crash test though...

Trying to find a manual Camry here is like trying to find Gen3 SE Camry. Quite a rare treat, but I'd love to grab a manual Camry. A lot of manual camry are base models though.
 
#5 ·
Well since OP is from So Cal I think rust isn't an issue for him ;) I agree the four cylinders are easy to work on, lots of space in the engine bay. When I bought my V6 I had no previous experience working on cars, only mopeds and scooters. I popped the hood open and it made my head spin. What the hell am I getting myself into, I thought. For the more complicated jobs I drive my car to my old man's garage and it's like walking a tightrope without a net. I must not fail. I'm 40 miles away from civilization, no internet, no spare vehicle, no experience. Just my FSM and tools. That's how I get my adrenaline fix :D I love what you do for me Toyota!
 
#6 ·
I'd recommend the 4 banger since it's easier to work on and the consensus is that it's more reliable. And as botee, the earliest gen 2 is approaching 30 years old and the newest 25, so most you'll come across will have some issues most likely depending on the owner. A cream puff clean one will go for more than $1500.
 
#7 ·
A creampuff well documentedV6 LE I toyed with buying sold for around $3000 locally, and had less than 100k on it. That is what I would consider absolute top of the market for a 2nd gen of any kind. But in reality your garden variety 2nd gen will probably be a 4 cylinder with some combination of power windows/locks/mirrors, tach, cruise, and tape deck but probably not all of them and will likely be worth around $1500 for a clean example with recent records. With a car as old as these the key is records. Receipts in the glove box are the best but if the owner used a place that reported to CarFax that is fine too. Of course this is not a promise of quality - I bought a car with some of the most complete documentation I've seen on a used vehicle and the transmission was rebuilt a few weeks later, but it helps. Also receipts from the last 2-3 years are worth far more than something from 1999. If it doesn't look nice walk, a great money of these cars have been run into the ground and not worth messing with, so don't settle for junk when a good one will probably only be a couple hundred more.

The reality is I doubt you will find one of these that won't need at least some work, and odds are someone is selling it for a reason. For a private sale I'd highly suggest finding a trusted mechanic to check it out, and in California make sure it will pass emissions. Common wear items that tend to be neglected and fail or are wear items on these are struts (leaks), motor mounts (odd vibrations/excess noise/clunks), hoses (cracks, swelling), the ignition system (especially ignition coil causing poor running)), leaks from the front end of the engine (oil pump, front crank seal, and occasionally cam seal), timing belt/water pump, A/T and differential fluid changes being ignored (check for dark/burnt smelling fluid), and drive axle boots tearing (flings grease everywhere).

None of this is abnormal for an older car of any make really. I also suggest the I4 as it's easy to work on and the V6 is prone to head gasket issues. A small puff of smoke on start up is normal due to worn valve stem seals and no big deal; avoid cars that smoke while idling or revving. On the plus side in California rust will be far less of an issue (but still get under it and inspect the fuel/brake lines), and in terms of electronic stuff most of it generally works and when it fails is easily fixed. The most common issues are probably minor stuff like a dead tape deck or broken wire driver's door impacting power window operation.

They do drive and ride rather nice/easy when in good shape and even the I4/Auto combo should be able to keep with traffic and get out of it's own way. As said above you will need a metric socket set: the Lowes Kobalt 3/8" drive is great for the money but the Harbor Freight set is more or less the same thing and also fine if it's on sale, and the factory service manual is a must. There are not too many mods for them unless you go with an AllTrac or engine swap, and even then I'd focus on having money on hand for repairs. If you can DIY it you'll save a fortune. As for audio, I had a Kenwood Excelon HU, 6.5" Excelon rear speakers, and 3.5" JL speakers. It was crisp and clear but had even less bass than my Corolla. If you want any bass you'll need a sub. Right now though since the car is nearing the end I just have a newer Toyota OEM tape deck and the JLs and frankly it doesn't sound bad at all for what it is. Just depends what your level of expectation is, for me as a short trip/winter car it works fine.
 
#8 · (Edited)
If you're driving in heavy traffic I'd get the 4 cylinder engine and automatic trans. You're pretty much guaranteed to have neglect issues from the previous owner so I'd keep money for repairs and not a stereo. You should be studying!


We've had our 87 for 28 years and it drives/looks pretty much like new but we've always taken good care of it. Passes smog even in Los Angeles.
 
#9 ·
Thank you all for your replies. I don't personally know any "trusted" mechanics, however when selecting a car, I google the area/neighborhood it's located in for auto mechanics in that area and their rates, and reviews. I also use the CA smog website to check out the plates when available. I can technically drive stick, but it's been a while and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.

I have no plans to modify the car, I wouldn't know enough to even start on that. I'd like to keep the car looking & running as it was originally meant to.

Listings like this usually catch my eye. Ones like that are not the LE model, but appear to have power options anyway. A good thing about the car's age is that I won't have to get it smogged for that much longer, depending on the year. (30+ year-old cars become exempt from smog in CA) But with low miles and no apparent problems for that price, I do become a little suspicious. I plan to test drive these cars in all sorts of roads and conditions, and use everything in the car to check if it all works like it should. After that, if I feel confident about the car, I will have it inspected before buying.

Just in case you're curious, here are all the local listings on craigslist near me: http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_transmission=2&hasPic=1&max_auto_year=1991&min_auto_year=1987&nearbyArea=103&nearbyArea=209&nearbyArea=7&nearbyArea=8&query=toyota%20camry&searchNearby=1
 
#31 ·
Thank you all for your replies. I don't personally know any "trusted" mechanics, however when selecting a car, I google the area/neighborhood it's located in for auto mechanics in that area and their rates, and reviews.http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/...earbyArea=8&query=toyota camry&searchNearby=1
Be VERY careful with this. It might not be as bad with a private party sale, but for the small used car lots - the local mechanics tend to know the dealer lots, if not do maintenance for them, so they often have more interest in helping the local dealer sell a car than giving you an honest evaluation of it.

the wagon has a lot of great new parts but whenever I see that I wonder why a lot of work got put into a car and now they're getting rid of it...
I got here to late to see the actual ad, but you never know on this. My dad many times would put 4 new tires on a car he thought he would keep, than find something he liked on a car lot a week later and trade it in.

The seller might have been planning to keep the car and then they decided they liked some feature in a new car or needed something larger and had to trade it.

Or they kept it up and one day the visor fell off or the alternator failed and they replaced it but decided enough was enough and they were sick or nickel and diming things and needed to move on and sell it.

Or the transmission or head gasket failed and they put a can of leak-fix in it and need to sell it fast ...

Really hard to say ...
 
#10 ·
Wow there is some pretty nice cars there. I am envious

84Cressida, look what is there too!
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5294825196.html

and I'd buy this since these are nonexistant. LE trim too
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/5324965855.html


OK...getting off subject, lol.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5332276078.html

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/cto/5330496170.html

Those two looks good as well.

But like always it could be car flippers. I see them quite often enough overhere.
 
#14 ·
Yeah I enjoy looking at the listings every day. First week of January, hopefully.

There's the rub, finding one that has been well maintained all those years. Too bad the OP has so little to spend. His task may indeed be daunting.

You gave a good example with the wagon,one the OP can cross of his list.If it had all that work it is probably work to hold the car over until it can be sold.
I don't see as many wagons, plus the mileage isn't as good on them and I like the look of the sedan better anyway.

Not per se, but as said above the youngest examples of these cars are approaching 25 years old which is about 15 more than the designers envisioned . Any car that age will need some work from time to time and has a well established list of common failure points that should be checked before purchase. He also needs to be cautious to not spend all he has on the car and then having nothing left if it requires repair in a short period of time. I'd try to have at least $500 on hand for emergencies, at least until he gets comfortable with the car. Personally I like the looks of the blue one; the wagon has a lot of great new parts but whenever I see that I wonder why a lot of work got put into a car and now they're getting rid of it...
Yeah the blue one is one I'm seriously considering. Many of these listings may not be available by January, however. So I'm trying not to get too attached to any one of them just yet. Around the last week of December, I'll contact one or two sellers and try to make an appointment.

I took a short walk around Lynwood (in South L.A.) yesterday, and I spotted a couple 2nd gens in great condition. Every time I see one, it keeps my confidence about those cars high. :)
 
#26 ·
I like it. But Santa Barbara is a bit of a drive from here. It would be nice if I could get it shipped my way (about 150 miles).

You're still fortunate. Once rust gets a foothold it spreads quickly.It's reminiscent of the Honda rust issues that affected many Accords of the same vintage.
I've only seen one Honda from that era with rust - a white one with rust on the rear, just above one of the tail lights where it appears to have been hit by an object (chipped the paint, rusting the now-exposed sheet metal beneath it). That was in a Wal-Mart parking lot. But on all other 86-89 an 90-93 Accords I've seen down here, the worst they have is oxidizing paint.

Looks good, I'd take it for a spin. It's a V6 but hey I can't preach against it, after all I do own one. They're not very easy to work on, the engine bay is cramped. Plenty of parts available. I take mine on fairly long road trips every year, never had an issue. 2VZ-FE / A540E combo is not too bad on gas, it likes 91 octane but I have averaged 24 mpg on my last trip and I was pretty satisfied with that. They're good cars. If you're willing to learn how to maintain it yourself I doubt you'll regret buying one.
I didn't notice it was a V6 until you pointed it out. At any rate, I'll be contacting a seller about four weeks from now.

This one is strange. If he put all that work into it, why is he selling it for just $300 (and apparently expecting it to be sold as a parts car)? The seller even states that a new tranny will get it up and running again just fine. Some of the new parts he put into it are probably worth more than $300 individually. Maybe I'm missing something...?
 
#25 ·
Looks good, I'd take it for a spin. It's a V6 but hey I can't preach against it, after all I do own one. They're not very easy to work on, the engine bay is cramped. Plenty of parts available. I take mine on fairly long road trips every year, never had an issue. 2VZ-FE / A540E combo is not too bad on gas, it likes 91 octane but I have averaged 24 mpg on my last trip and I was pretty satisfied with that. They're good cars. If you're willing to learn how to maintain it yourself I doubt you'll regret buying one.
 
#36 ·
The private sellers can be shady as well. There are scammers to worry about, but there are also the people that will find out the head gasket is leaking and put some stop-leak in the radiator and change the oil and tell you it runs great and doesn't have any problems and will be a great car for you ...
 
#37 ·
You don't want me to get a car, do you? :grin: Don't worry, remember I will have the car inspected before buying (and that's if I feel comfortable with the car during the test drive first, plus my own personal inspection). I also won't be going alone, after all, I need someone to take me there to meet the seller in the first place. But thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into that.
 
#38 ·
Also, should I bother with car history reporting companies like Carfax to look up info/history on the vehicle if I'm serious about buying it? It costs between $40 and $55 for vehicle history reports. Is it worth it?
 
#41 ·
Agree 100% on Carfax. One of my car's obviously had major repair, but because they never went through insurance (going off the quality of work...) it was never on the Carfax. Another one of my vehicles I bought from a family member I knew had an accident, insurance paid for the repair, and not a thing on the Carfax. They try to make the glovebox of receipts seem worthless compared to a Carfax, but it's really the best thing there is. At least with title issues, unless it was washed (probably difficult in California), it will probably be branded for easy identification. Even the info a Carfax tells you isn't great; another vehicle I owned 3 different warranty paint repairs listed as 'exterior trim checked'!

Really, the thing you'll get buying cars working on them and going over them is experience. No one will spot every problem on their first buy but you'll eventually get better at it, just follow the advice here, be careful/don't rush and you should get a solid car.
 
#44 ·
That's all well and good, but the days of working on them,definitely the newer ones is coming to a close. Not many (if any) are going to want to tackle items such as CVTS, combined HVAC/Infotainment systems, push button start, etc. To think Toyota has been criticized for staying with what has been considered "old tech" for so long, such as the 4 speed auto.
 
#48 ·
I think at this point if you're buying a 25 year+ old car any accidents it's had in its life and repairs probably aren't an issue. If a 1991 model was totaled in 1996 and then rebuilt and has gone 20 years, I think it's safe to say it's okay.
 
#49 ·
Yes. Not many listings I could find with accidents that far back though.

What do you guys think of this one? I've been in contact with this seller since earlier today, I'm going to talk to him on the phone tomorrow. Needs to be smogged+tags but he lowered the price just enough to be favorable anyway.
 
#51 ·
I like it too but remember my budget is $1500. It would take me until the end of February to save up for that one, and by that time it would probably be gone anyway.

Also, what are the risks with that engine (on the car I posted)? It says that the water pump had been replaced and head deck resurfaced. I just want to carefully consider all my options here.
 
#52 ·
Head deck resurfacing along with a water pump would make me think it had a water pump fail, over heated, and blew the head gasket, warping something along the way that required machining work to get right. This job needs to be PERFECTLY or it will never be right with little chance of getting it right. I'd want thorough documentation on the repair job including who did it, and then have a third party verify everything with a leak down test and coolant system pressure test. From one picture I'd inspect the right rear arch carefully for rust; it looks a bit dented and can't tell if the black spots are just primer/scratches or rust.
 
#54 · (Edited)
I don't think there is any rust on it, Carfax shows the car has always been here in California since it was manufactured. There does look like there is a dent just above the front right wheel arch, but it's no big deal to me. I'm asking the seller for recent vehicle records today.
If it needs to be smogged/tagged that could indicate the person tried, failed and didn't have the money to do repairs to get the car passed. Their solution is to sell the car rather than deal with it.
The California smog history website shows the last time the car was brought in for smogging was in 2013, and it passed. Cars are typically supposed to go in for smogging every two years here, it doesn't show that the car was even brought in this year yet. The seller insists that the car will pass smog; I assume he just doesn't want to deal with it (including the tags) and would rather sell it like you said. If he had tried to smog it and failed, it would have shown up on the CA smog website.

Here's my other best choice (as it's not a V6 and it has low miles). So what do you think about that one?
 
#57 ·
White one looks good to me as well, assuming info is accurate.

As far as Carfax - I wouldn't pay the $50. If it is from a dealer, I would probably get him to run it and fold it into the price of the car. From a private party, that is hard to do.

And I would look for negative info on the Carfax - i.e. if the Carfax shows accidents, odometer errors, etc. - look at those as issues with the car to negotiate the price down or be aware of. If the Carfax is clean - that isn't a negative against the car, but don't assume that the car is fine b/c of that.
 
#58 ·
Yes. Car fax is only as good accurate as the people who report it, so if it was someone who drove into a pole but never reported it, the car would show up as 'no accidents'. I buy Carfax when I'm serious about puchasing another car just because I want a second set of eyes (i.e. where car has been, any odo rollback, serious accidents). Since I'm on craigslist a lot too, it is good to just randomly carfax cars that I suspect it being a 'bad car'.

Just as a reference, I had two minor accidents in my 2004 Camry that caused minor paint chipping on my bumper (rear end got tap) and a small dent on my hood (lifted truck reversed) which both never shown up on carfax and I had a police report for both (minor vehicle collision). My friend's dad though when his car got totaled, it did show up on carfax though, but that was a serious accident.
 
#59 ·
What's a good alternative to Carfax in the U.S? In Canada CarProof is much much better Carfax very often has missing or incomplete data.
 
#60 ·
As you said - Carfax is useful to verify or confirm what you already think about the car.

In your case, the carfax was clean, even though the car had been in two minor accidents.

Then again, from what you described, I doubt the accidents damage the car's reliability - but if they were on the Carfax and somebody saw "Minor accident Reported" twice, they might pass up what would have been a good car.

Another thing you can do it google the VIN number.

Not trying to scare the OP, but I've seen cars that looked immaculate in photos and you google the Vin number and you see where the car was sold at a salvage auction and the entire front end was damaged.

(Typically if you see something like a 2012 Fiesta with 40K miles for $2500 - if it seems too good to be true ...)
 
#61 ·
Do you already have the $$$ in hand to buy one of these $1500 cars? If not, you shouldn't be calling anyone yet, or even checking VINs on CarFax... Its just wasting your time and the sellers time. There will be multiple Camrys for sale in the price range that will be just fine whenever you are ready to buy.

Also, don't fall for the 'It'll pass smog' thing - it is the seller's responsibility in California to have a valid smog certificate in hand before selling the car. You don't want to risk an immediate expensive repair (say, catalytic converter!) before you can even drive the car you just bought.

-Charlie
 
#62 ·
I just received the strangest phone call....

I had emailed the seller of that '89 Camry earlier today and gave him my phone number, and he called me back and suddenly said that he was getting rid of the car for just $500 today, and if I was interested to call him back. So yeah...thanks but no thanks, dude.

Good thing that wasn't the only car I was considering.
 
#63 ·
What the heck? That is strange unless they trying to pull that 'moving' crap and just flipping cars.

Although to make $500 off a car is not alot. Most of these flippers tend to aim for cars a bit newer with more overhead value.
 
#64 ·
As mentioned earlier - car probably has a bad head gasket, maybe worse, and seller says it will pass smog, but doesn't say that he smogged it.

I think the seller just wants it to be someone else's problem - although the scrap value is probably $200, so at $500 the buyer would not have a lot of money tied up in it.
 
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