5sfe Frankenstien Motor

[Nice89]

I searched a bit, but could not find much info on swapping a 5sfe long block for a 2nd gen 3sfe.

What little I did find suggests:
1. The swap is dead-simple for an 8 bolt 3sfe Gen 2 Camry
2. The 3sfe intake manifold, EFI components and exhaust are up to task and bolt oin
3. The manual transmission can easily take the moderate increase in power and torque

Requirements:
1. More torque for hills and mountains
2. Similar gas mileage, say 30 MPG or better on highway
3. California emissions compliance, including visual inspection

Current Camry mechanical condition:
1. Engine runs great, slight smoke on startup, lots of minor leaks, consumes < 1/2 quart every 3k miles
2. MPG good, ranging from 30 to 36 MPG in mixed driving
3. Mild complications from oil leaks - short air filter life, oily residue everywhere under hood, front control arm bushings and motor mounts oil soaked, radiator hoses a bit swollen and slimy, etc.

I want new springs, struts, and bushings for the suspension. I hate sloppy handling.

But

It seems like fixing the suspension before the oil leaks is dumb. I could just fix all the leaks on my original engine and put in a new timing belt, maybe replace an oil soaked clutch?, etc. My next timing belt will be needed in about 6 mos. That means the engine is coming out in the near future.

I am tempted to do a 5sfe swap at the same time.

Is there some reason why I should keep my 3sfe longblock?

[touringcamry]

As long as your 5S is the same year or newer than your car, you should be good as far as smog goes. Also, you probably would want to look at a 95 or older 5S since they'll be OBD I rather than OBD II. Also starting in 97, the 5S use distributorless ignition with waste spark.

Mixed driving, I got about 27 MPG on my 2000 Camry I4. But that car is probably quite a bit heavier than your car and it was automatic too. If you are doing more open highway driving (doubt it though since you're in SF) your mileage might be better. Most I've ever got was about 31 MPG round trip going about 57 MPH between here and the Nevada border. I think there were about 5 stop signs the entire way there. Each way was about 140 mi.

I really don't know enough about swapping engines to tell you much more though.

[WVcamry3sfe]

I've not heard much about 5sfe swap for the 2nd gen camry. but i would think that with that swap you'd have to get the 5sfe computer for it too. and i think the 5sfe motor mounts would be different than the 3sfe's... i would think it might make more sense to install a 3sge because from what i have heard the motor mounts would be the same?

[toyomoho]

You overall MPG will drop to around 26. If ALL freeway driving as in taking a long trip, this can go up into the lower 30’s, if all city this will drop below 26ish. The 5-SFE has a good deal of pep for most driving, you will know it is a four banger when climbing long mountain hills.

If you can live with the above, the 5-SFE is a very reliable engine.

!/2 quart per 3000 miles is good especially as much of this oil may be leaking out. Are you getting oil in the air filter? The smoke at start up is caused by worn valves stem seals.

[white90dx]

I'm not sure how well the 3s-fe ECU would handle the slightly higher airflow of the 5s-fe motor... It would probably be ok for cruising - or maybe you could swap over to the 5s-fe injectors. Not sure.

I thought I remembered the 5s-fe is a 6-bolt motor - I could be wrong on that. Where did you get your info?

In my opinion, if you can fix the oil leaks on your current motor you should just go that route.

-Charlie

[90 Gen2]

Originally Posted by white90dx

I'm not sure how well the 3s-fe ECU would handle the slightly higher airflow of the 5s-fe motor... It would probably be ok for cruising - or maybe you could swap over to the 5s-fe injectors. Not sure.

I thought I remembered the 5s-fe is a 6-bolt motor - I could be wrong on that. Where did you get your info?


-Charlie

Does 6-bolt and 8-bolt refer to the crank/flywheel?
Concerning the fuel injection...if most air flow meters can typically be adjusted reasonalby well for mild aftermarket camshafts, wouldn't the 3sfe and 5sfe flow differences be within the same range, and therefore be accommodated by the stock parts?

A related question....what about swapping only the 5sfe head onto the 3sfe motors? I know that this is/has been frequently done, but are there any reasons to specifically choose the 5sfe head over the 3sfe when considering a replacement? It seems like a good many oil leaking seals would be easily changed during the course of a head swap, and perhaps maintaing the fuel economy of the 3sfe but updating the head to the 5sfe and repairing the leaks in the process would solve the major problem while also providing a little extra torque as incentive to do the work? i'm just thinking out loud, wondering, I'm not sure if this would actually bear fruit. If not, what are the prospects of doing the same with the 3sge head?

[Tommy]

5SFE is going to be an 8-bolt crank.

Dont really see the point though, for $400 you can get a used imported lower milage JDM 3SFE that actually makes more power than a 5SFE and you dont have to worry about anything, just a direct swap. or you can spend about $800-$1000 and get a 2nd gen 3SGE, make a wiring harness and have more hp than either of the 2.

[touringcamry]

My understanding is that JDM motors do not have EGR and without it, the OP will not pass California smog inspection. Even if it passes the sniffer exam, it will fail the visual portion.

[90 Gen2]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Dont really see the point though, for $400 you can get a used imported lower milage JDM 3SFE that actually makes more power than a 5SFE and you dont have to worry about anything, just a direct swap.

Though possibly not related to the original post, for me the point would be not having to pull a motor. I'm not set up to do a swap like that, but a head swap would be manageable I think. We've spend a few hundred bucks having various seals replaced on our 3sfe, and it is very nice to have no leaks whenever it comes time to work on something that used to get leaked on. It's kind of defeating to put a lot of effort into working on something that looks like a POS under the hood or from underneath. For some people, the non-monetary "cost" of time spent working on the car, with the car out of commission, is greater than the financial cost, say, of a $400 used motor.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by touringcamry

My understanding is that JDM motors do not have EGR and without it, the OP will not pass California smog inspection. Even if it passes the sniffer exam, it will fail the visual portion.

while true that they do not have egr, it is possible to add it. the hole for the egr tube is there, it just needs to be tapped, then you use your usdm manifold and all is good.


And im not even entirely sure a head or a block swap is really fesiable. a GE head wont go on a 5SFE block without serious work because of oil and water passages, so i cant imagine how either a 5SFE head/block or a 3SFE head/block would go on respectively either without some serious work.