Newbie with a fuel problem

[zirkdog]

I have a 90 Camry, 4cyl, 5spd, with 240k/mi. In the last wo weeks a new problem has surfaced. While out running errands and dong multiple stops/starts, the engine began to sputter and die on me. It did it while starting from stop signs and red lights, and would occasionaly hiccup while at cruising rpm's. I had to really crank the engine to get it to refire and when it did it reeked of gas. It would sputter as the clutch was let out, so I usually had to floor it and dump the clutch to keep it from dying.

The car was given to me by my father in-law and other than oil changes I have no idea what service/tune-ups/maint has been done on it. I'm a Ford truck man and this Toyota thing is new to me. I do feel that the problem is fuel related though, due to the smell, and sputtering. I've seached the forum and read about cold start injectors (don't quite understand them), fuel filters that last forever, and throttle bodies that gum up and wear out. Like I say, I'm not to sure about where to start. I also don't want to dump the cash into the car as i feel it's on it's way out (Blasphemy, I know). Thanks in advance for the help.

[toyomoho]

There are online service manuals available at the link below. Most of these have good diagnostics sections and data to test parts so you will not need to buy and swap. This includes testing the cold start injector, MAP sensor, etc. You will need a low cost volt-ohm-milliamp meter (under $10 if you shop around).

Do you think you are getting too much gas? Any trouble codes stored in the ECM, you can check this yourself with the onboard diagnostic system.

Other then the car dieing at stop signs, how does it run on the freeway, power OK? Steady engine speed?

http://oregonstate.edu/~tongt/camry

[zirkdog]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

Do you think you are getting too much gas? Any trouble codes stored in the ECM, you can check this yourself with the onboard diagnostic system.

Other then the car dieing at stop signs, how does it run on the freeway, power OK? Steady engine speed?

This is where my ignorance shines through. I haven't/don't know how to check codes. The car hasn't been over 45mph in about a year. My wife drives two miles to work and back each day with it and occasionaly around town. It has had a hiccupp or two coming up to cruising speed, usually on the 1st to 2nd shift.

[TBayToyotaBoy]

Okay, let's take some of the mystery out of this for you. Look at the driver's side strut tower, just in front of the brake master cylinder. You'll see a plastic housing attached to the strut wall that says "DIAGNOSTIC" on the cap. Pull the cap up (it hinges up and out of the way).

On the inside of the cap there is a diagram of the various terminals. The ones you want are E and T1. Bend a paper clip such that it will bridge those two terminals.

Turn the key to the "ON" position, but don't start the car. Just leave the key at ON. Bridge those two terminals and watch the flashing "check engine" light on the dash. Mark down the sequence it flashes in, and compare them to the codes listed in the Haynes or Chilton manual. If you don't have one, post the results here and I can tell you what code you're getting.

The codes are like Morse. Short-long-long-short-short. Or something like that...

[timebuilder]

OR...

Study the online manuals, and particularly the section called "EFI." That's an acronym for Electronic Fuel Injection. There is a thorough discussion of codes and their acquisition and interpretation in the manuals.

There may be a buffet of maintenance items you need to address, but it will serve you well to know that conditions the computer (often called the ECM, or Engine Control Module) is seeing as it operates. Start there and follow good diagnostic practices.

One of my standard (and most revealing) diagnostic tests is the fuel system pressure/volume test. More on that later.

You also want to have a clean throttle body, plugs in good condition, and serviceable spark plug wires. We used to routinely replace the cap and wire assembly at three year intervals. Luckily, toyota prints a date on each wire that lets you know how old the wires are, so you know when to replace them for best maintenance.

Oh, and thank you for driving a Ford truck. When I was in the business, Ford kept me alive with replacing EGR valves and EVP sensors, CFI actuator motors, TFI ignition modules, fuel pumps, alternators and connector pigtails, and the ever-popluar tow-in for resetting the intertia switch when the vehicle died after hitting a pothole. I got to know many of my Ford customers by name because of the regular visits. I used to see the toyota folks once a year, for state inspection and emissions.

Depending on the age of the toyota (less than 200k miles?) you may want to hang onto it. Oil could go to over $150 a gallon if Iranian President "Tom" Ahmadinezhad begins to act on what he has stated as his intentions, and it could be pretty dicey to keep a truck on the road for all intents besides commercial use. A Camry will get you there and back every day for over 25 miles per gallon, and more if you accellerate slowly and keep under 55.

I'd keep it, if I were you.

[Doctor J]

High fuel prices would keep the big monsters of the road which is not so bad.
There are general recommendations what to check before digging into EFI system:
Wire connectors on the distributor, sensors and injectors;
The intake connector between air cleaner and throttle body (the clamps could be loose);
vacuum hoses.
The problem is also could be ignition related (ign.coil inside the distributor).
If possible , let the engine stall, then check the spark plugs.
I the insulator and the elctrodes are covered with soot, the problem is weak ignition, if they damp, but clean, engine flooding is indicated.

[timebuilder]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

High fuel prices would keep the big monsters of the road which is not so bad.

If that was the only result, and not a recession, I'd say that's "not so bad," but the effect would go far beyond that.

[fredk]

sounds like the coil is on the way out

[TBayToyotaBoy]

This post is a perfect example of why the Gen2 Camry forum is my favorite. Where else could we go from fuel/ignition problems to world oil discussions? Keep it up guys, I'd hate to see us get boring...

As for the recession Iran might cause, it would only be a catylist--not the cause. At some point we're going to get hit hard by oil prices, and the timing is almost irrelevant. Our governments have shown that they have no intention of preparing us for the inevitable. Further proof that our species is reactionary rather than visionary. And further proof that we see ourselves as being above Darwinian theory.

Back to the matter at hand, however: zirkdog, any progress yet?

[timebuilder]

Originally Posted by TBayToyotaBoy

This post is a perfect example of why the Gen2 Camry forum is my favorite. Where else could we go from fuel/ignition problems to world oil discussions? Keep it up guys, I'd hate to see us get boring...

As for the recession Iran might cause, it would only be a catylist--not the cause. At some point we're going to get hit hard by oil prices, and the timing is almost irrelevant. Our governments have shown that they have no intention of preparing us for the inevitable. Further proof that our species is reactionary rather than visionary. And further proof that we see ourselves as being above Darwinian theory.

Back to the matter at hand, however: zirkdog, any progress yet?

It might be relevant to realize that it is not the responsibility of government to "prepare us" for what is to come, but more a case of our own repsonsibility to demand of our government that we make further good exploration of our own resources in this hemisphere, and not worry about the sight of drilling platforms or wind farms from Malibu or Martha's Vinyard. Also of note is that it is today's profits from "big oil" that will finance the research and development of tomorrow's energy sources.

As for a recession, all that Iran needs to do to set the world economy into a serious situation is to interupt the flow of oil, the "mother's milk" of modern civilization, an act that would be causal rather than catalytic. We now have the technology to recover many decades of oil reserves in an environmentally acceptable manner, but we are too consumed with a fear of ideas rather than a willingness to accept responsibility for our energy needs.

As for the immediate need for zirkdog's car repair, we will wait for more information.

[marc780]

Two easy things to check. Toyo could be right, if the cold start injector were giving fuel all the time, it might cause this. The sensor or the injector itself might be leaking?
Also the idle air control could be gummed up and maybe the vanes are stuck closed. So clea nthe throttle body and soak the IAC through the hole, if it makes a difference but doesnt totally fix it, remove iac for a thorough cleaning.

High fuel prices would keep the big monsters of the road which is not so bad.

Yes Dr J, but people are still buying big trucks with big V8s! Why??? Those things get 15 mpg on a good day, on highway with a tail wind and the engine off. Foos!!! I wonder if some people EVER read the news - Ford F150 pickup was the #1 best selling vehicle in the USA last year and what mpg does it get - 14 to 18 epa!

[zirkdog]

It happened again. Took it for a drive to get the temp up, and it stubled on the 1-2 shift. The clutch also likes to go "soggy" after this happens. It has a brand new clutch in it, done in the fall of '05, with less than 5k/mi on the new clutch. It usually feels quite firm and responsive, after a stumble it goes sort of "soggy."

I jumped the ECU with a paper clip and could not get anything other than the constant steady on/off engine light pulse. No breaks, no patterns, no codes.

Now the engine won't start. It cranks just fine, but won't start.

As far as Ford's and trucks, to each his own. I just don't fit in little cars. 6'5'' 230.

[zirkdog]

Originally Posted by timebuilder

OR...

Depending on the age of the toyota (less than 200k miles?) you may want to hang onto it.

I'd keep it, if I were you.

It's got 240k/mi on it. The drive line on the driver's side clicks like a demon on every corner, and nothing electrical works (cruise, windows, rear def.,dome lights. No blown fuses though) and now this. It's on its way out. Just need to limp it along as an in town only vehicle.

[TBayToyotaBoy]

Originally Posted by zirkdog

It's got 240k/mi on it. The drive line on the driver's side clicks like a demon on every corner, and nothing electrical works (cruise, windows, rear def.,dome lights. No blown fuses though) and now this. It's on its way out. Just need to limp it along as an in town only vehicle.

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like the car was well cared for. My Camry and my Corolla sedan both have the same mileage (380,000km) and everything works on both of them (except for the power antenna on the Camry--it was broken-off by a drunken ass last year). I'm really sorry to hear of your Camry's condition, because a well cared-for Toyota will not die. Ever.

[timebuilder]

Originally Posted by zirkdog

As far as Ford's and trucks, to each his own. I just don't fit in little cars. 6'5'' 230.

I can see your problem. I used to fly with three differnt guys who were all your size. Trouble was, Bill Lear was smaller than me, and he designed the Lear from that perspective. Picture yourself in a Corolla, or better yet, a Tercel. Ouch.

Yes, it sounds like the Camry was not well maintained. Perhaps you should go to the online manuals and make the checks for the cold start injector, and review the basics like the air duct between the throttle body and the air flow meter, look for loose hoses, etc. Take an old plug and use it to check for spark if you are not getting started, and read the plugs as Doctor J suggested.