Engine wont start... slipped timing belt?

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

Hey guys, a few months ago my engine died (3sfe), and hasnt turned on since. It will crank, but wont turn over and run. I have narrowed it down to either a fuel or spark problem, or a slipped timing belt. I have checked for spark, and i do get spark from the spark plug, but it is a very small spark. I dont know if maybe the spark is not strong enough tho to turn the engine on. Is there any tool i can buy that will tell me if the spark im getting is adequate? When i remove the spark plugs after cranking the engine, they smell like fuel, so i dont think i have a fuel pump problem, or a cogged fuel filter. Is there any way to check if i am actually getting fuel to all the cylinders?

So im thinking its probably a slipped timing belt. One of the teeth must have broken off and is sending the wrong timing to the engine and not allowing it to turn over. Or maybe the timing belt tensioner needs to be tightened, and it caused the timing belt to sag and jump a few notches? I took off the distributor cap and cranked the engine and watched the rotor, and it spins, so the timing belt is not actually broken. Is the 3sfe a non-interference motor? Just wondering if i may have bent a few valves if the timing belt sipped?

[atobe]

you can take off the valve cover and see if it's turning.... better yet just take off your distributor cap and see if that spins around when u try to crank. i think that's turned by the cams... and no worries about bent valves the 3sfe is non-inter

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

Ive already done that, and the rotor turns, so i know the timing belt isnt broken.

[toyomoho]

Download the service info for this engine from the link below. It has a diagnostic procedure for no start condition. The usual test for spark is to remove the coil wire from the distributor. Hold it about ½ inch from chasse ground and crank the engine. You should see a healthy spark.

You can check alignment of the cam pulley/rotor and crank to see if the belt has jumped a tooth.

http://oregonstate.edu/~tongt/camry

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

Alright, ill look at that link. When i checked for spark, there is spark, but how big should the spark actually be? If i remember correctly, the spark was contained between the gap, it wasnt very big. How big should it be?

How should i check for fuel to make sure fuel is getting to all the cylinders?

And how should i check the alignment of the cam pulley/rotor and crank to see if the belt jumped a tooth?

[Mike Gerber]

"When i checked for spark, there is spark, but how big should the spark actually be? If i remember correctly, the spark was contained between the gap, it wasnt very big. How big should it be? "

The spark should be small. The color is your best guide. The spark should be blue in color. An orange spark is weak; too weak to usually fire the plugs. If you don't see a blue spark, run the checks for no spark or weak spark from any manual. Just an FYI; These generation 2 3SFE engines had a lot of problems with the coil inside the distributor. An aftermarket coil is around $50 and will take about 30 minutes to replace. I would check the specs on the coil with a DVM and the specs from any manual.

Good luck.

Mike

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

I dont remember what color the spark was. Im gonna work some more on it on sunday, so ill check for spark again. Ill see if i can get my hands on a dvm and check the specs in the service manual if the spark is orange. Ive been holding the spark plug up to the alternator braket, is that a good ground? The block is way too greasy and dirty to ground anything to it. Does autozone rent dvm's?

I was thinking about checking compression, and seeing if the compression is too low. Would that mean the timing belt could be an issue? Ill see if autozone rents a compression checker too.

Also, when i crank the engine, it cranks normal for a few seconds, then will crank slower for a second, then go back to normal, so the cranking is not a constant speed. Could that be useful to diagnosing the problem? Its not the battery, i fully charge the battery before i work on the car.

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

What steps should i take to check the timing belt? Do i have to jack the engine up to get the timing belt cover off so i can inspect the belt?

[Kep]

Just for grins, put the key in the accessory position (don't crank the engine). All of the idiot lights should come on. If the Check Engine Light does not come on there is an EFI Relay that may be bad.
************************************************** *************************
This is copied from "Tech Tip Corner"

Relay Runaround on Toyota Models
A faulty main circuit opening relay may cause an intermittent no-start condition on several Toyota models. If you are lucky enough to get the vehicle from the customer when it won't start, try this simple check before you waste any time on complicated diagnosis:

• Turn the ignition to the ON position. The CHECK ENGINE light should be ON.
• If the CHECK ENGINE light is not ON, locate the main circuit opening relay, then make sure you have more than nine volts on the output pole of the relay with the ignition in the ON position.
• If the output voltage is below nine volts, but the input voltage to the relay is equal to battery voltage, replace the circuit opening relay. Its internal contacts are probably pitted and arced, which creates a voltage drop inside the relay.

I've spent more than one day on more than one car, trying to find an intermittent relay. Now I check the CHECK ENGINE light before I do any further diagnosis.

Brad Foltz
Miller Auto Group
Hedgeville, West Virginia


I am pretty sure that he is referring to the EFI relay. If your CEL isn't on when you put the key in accessory position it is awful suspicious. You may want to focus on the EFI wiring and the like.

Kep

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

I just did the CEL diagnostic check, and i pulled code 51: Switch condition signal

Now my question is, what should i check for to see what is causing this code?

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

Ok. i pulled the efi fuse to reset the ecu and see if that would get rid of the code, and it did. Now when i do the diagnostic check, the CEL just blinks ever half second and doesnt stop, so there is no longer any code. The engine still will not turn on tho.

I checked to see if the fuel pump was sending fuel to the engine by bridging ports B+ and Fp and it did nothing.

I checked for spark again, and i noticed that there is not a constant spark like i previously stated. When i hold the spark plug up to a ground and have someone crank it, the spark goes on and off. It doesnt hold a constant spark. Is it supposed to be like that?

And also, i noticed too that a wierd clunking noise comes from the intake/afm area when the engine is cranking, and some smoke comes out of the air filter (aftermarket cone filter). What could that be?

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

anyone have any ideas about the things i stated in my last reply?

[Mike Gerber]

"I checked to see if the fuel pump was sending fuel to the engine by bridging ports B+ and Fp and it did nothing."

If this was the right procedure (and I'm not certain it is) then you fuel pump isn't working at all. A simple way I use to check is to have someone turn the key to the on position (not start) while you listen by the gas tank with the cap removed, for the slight hum of the pump. Another way you can use to quickly check if the engine is getting fuel is to remove the large hose from the throttle body and spray some carb cleaner in to the throttle body. Then reassemble everything and try to start the car. If the car now sputters a bit, it is trying to ignite and run on the carb cleaner. If it wasn't sputtering before, you have varified that it wasn't getting any fuel before. Now you can check for current at the pump. If you are getting current, then the pump is defective. If no current, then you can check the fuel pump relay. If the relay checks out OK, then check the wiring to the pump.

Mike

[PoR2GeEzCamry]

I think your right about the procedure of checking the fuel pump that i did with the B+ and Fp ports. It didnt start when i did that, so that mean theres something woring wit hthe fuel pump right? But when i crank it after 10 seconds, there is such a strong smell of gas in the engine bay. Thats what confuses me. If the fuel pump wasnt sending any fuel to the engine, why would there be such a strong smell of gas?

Ill do the check that you mentioned about listening for the humming noise through the gas cap and see if i hear anything. And ill try some carb cleaner through the throttle body too.

[Mike Gerber]

"If the fuel pump wasnt sending any fuel to the engine, why would there be such a strong smell of gas?"


Are you sure the smell is coming from the engine? Have you checked for a fuel leak somewhere?

Mike