Put new rotors on, still have vibration, very frustrated!!!

[nogard]

Ok, I know I had a post on here about this problem, but I wanted to make a point that now I have a newer problem. I just installed new 16" rims and had a vibration problem when braking. So I just put new brakes on the car front and rear. New rear shoes, new front rotors, and ceramic pads.

I bolted every thing back up to spec. I took it out for a spin, I was easy on the brakes to let them bed in good. On the way home I took a long hill, started braking from 60 mph at about 1/3 braking power, and I still have the vibration (only when braking). The vibration seems to be shorter at a more specific speed range, but now the vibratino is more intense.

This really pisses me off, all the work and now change. What should I do?

1. Put my old stock 14"s back on and see if I have the problem (positive I wouldn't).

2. Give it time, put a few miles on the new brakes.

3. Call Wheel Max and tell them I think there is something wrong with the rims.

When bolting them up I even took the time to tighten everything in stages first to 60 ft/lbs. then to 78 ft/lbs.

What do I do???

[Ancientwolf13]

you might want to check both the wheel bearings and the calipers. Larger rims can cause more vibration than the OEM rims due to the extra length which would make a wheel bearing vibration more noticable. As far as the calipers they might not closing evenly which might cause a vibration and if off enough a slight pull to one side.

[atobe]

u sure it's not the bedin period? most brake pads require a 500miles bedin period. you can't just slap on new rotors/pads and drive like you stole it

[nogard]

I didn't just slap the new stuff in there and drive like I stole it. Like I said I used about 1/3 braking power. I know the brake need time to bed in. So I will give it some time. I know what you are saying, but I didn't just jam on the brakes, that would be dumb.

After I wrote this thread I was thinking and I also thought maybe it was the wheel bearing, I was going to check that when I was working on my car, and then I forgot all about it. But that is also a good point, and one I need to check into.

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a "cheap" set of rims issue. I figured if something was wrong with the rims I would notice it all the time, not only when braking.

Thanks for the info I will give it some time and post another thread when I have 500 miles on the new brakes.

[Variety=Spice]

control arm bushings?

[Mike Gerber]

Consider the possibility that the pulsation is coming from one of the rear drum brakes. Drums do warp too, although it usually is the front rotors that warp, since they do most of the stopping and they are therefore subjected to the most heat. One test you can do quickly is to pull up on the hand operated emergency brake at the speed you normally feel the pulsation, and see if you feel the pulsation in your hand. If so, one of the rear drums is warped. If you don't feel the pulsation, you can return to focusing on the front disc brakes to solve the problem.

Mike

[88yotaDX]

Give this a shot, jack up the car all around and set it on jack stands. With the wheels on try and shake the wheels side to side (twisting) also see how much play the caliper has. The last brake job I did the mounting hardware for the caliper was stretched, causing the caliper to move excessivly. To diagnose your problem having the car in front of me would help out a lot. Have you brought it to any shops?

[fredk]

sure your new wheels are sitting flat on the rotor and are using the hub to center on and not the studs?

[nogard]

I have new contorl arms on the car that came loaded with new bushing. So I don't think that is the problem.

I never thought about the rear brake drums. I was going to replace them, but they weren't that worn, so I just put new shoes in. I can't say 100% sure, but I'm 90% sure the pulsing is coming from the front.

I know I should have check my wheel bearing, by twisting the wheels. When I had it up in the air last time I was going to, but running short on time I was focused on finishing the brake job and I forgot to check the wheel bearings. I'm thinking that this might be the problem. It is one of the areas I haven't checked or touched as far as maintenance.

I'm sure the wheels aren't being centered lugcentrically, and the are centered hubcentrically. When I purchased the wheels I did get a hardware kit. I have plastic hubcenteric centering rings on the car. The apear to fit over the hub and inside the rim as they should. When I put the tires on the car when it is on jackstands. I usually start all the lugs by hand, so there is no cross threading. Then I use my air impact wrench at the lowest setting, and just snug the lugs, so the rim is seated flat against the hub and the tire won't **** as I lower the car to the ground. At this point the lugs are at about 50-60 ft/lbs. This last time I even put a piece of cardboard under all the tires. So as I lowered it to the ground the tires could slide as they go from positive camber when the are hanging to slight negitive when they are on the ground. I did this to try to keep the tire from grabbing the ground and putting side load on the rim. The once the car is on the ground I torque every thing to the recommended 78 ft/lbs. And after the first 100 miles when first putting on an aluminum rim I re-torque.

Thank you guys for the info, I'm trying to do everything I can to narrow down the problem and not be causing the problem by doing a procedure incorrectly. At this point I'm thinking it might be a wheel bearing problem. I've rode in a car with warped rotors. That feeling is more of a grab/release, pulsing. The problem I'm having is more of a vibration, like a harmonic vibration. At the right speed and braking pressure it is worse. If that makes any sense.

[Ancientwolf13]

Another option which could be unrelated to the new rims could be a motor mount starting to go bad or loosen. This will cause vibration when it reaches its resonence point in the RPM range. Also check your strut tower bearings and bolts they too will cause a vibration. I would give them a look if it isn't a wheel bearing.

[Mike Gerber]

"after the first 100 miles when first putting on an aluminum rim I re-torque."

Just curious, did you find any variance in the torque after the 100 miles?

Also, I was just rethinking your problem. Don't assume that brand new rotors are perfect. One of them could still be a bit warped. If you know anybody with a dial indicator, borrow it and check the new rotors for runout. I once bought new drums about 20 years ago for a generation 1 and one of them was warped right out of the box.

Mike

[stricular]

Because the torque on the outer end nut is critical to setting the wheel bearing preload. If they are too loose (or tight), it can cause wheel bearing problems. Although it is not often discussed, the axle acts as the inner race of the wheel bearings, AFAIK(please someone correct me if i am wrong). I dont know why you never hear about that in cv axle r&r diys, nor the wheel bearing seal that it is important to replace(or at least not damage). Just a thought. I hope you can get this sorted out soon.

[nogard]

I do think I have a bad engine mount, the front one. I had to take it out to get my new whiteline sway bar on. It didn't look so good, not torn just sloppy, more than it should be. The strut tower bearings where ok, and I know the nuts are tight. I had that all apart a few months ago when I put the new suspension on.

I do find a variance when I re-torque. It seems like the first time a set of wheels are mounted it is the worst. After the first 100 miles I could get at least 1/8-1/4 turn on most of the lugs. The stock toyota lugs with the washer that are used the 2nd gen alloys don't seem to do this as much as an achorn style lug nut. Steel rims don't seem to loosen at all in the first 100 miles. I'm sure alloys do because of the different rates of thermal expansion between the steel rotor and aluminum rim. Like I said I always do this, it take just a few minutes and is good preventitive maintenance. Thanks for pointing out about a new rotor being warped, I never considered that, very much a posibility.

I also didn't consider the torque being wrong for the bearings. I haven't done any work on the drive shafts. But I could check the torque to make sure it is right. And what you say makes sense about the driveshaft acting as the inner race, I knew that butting didn't think about it.

All very valid information.

[nuron]

nogard, did you eventually fix this issue? This is what I'm going through right now.

[DressUpYourPet]

if you didnt have this problem with the stock wheels, you already know what the problem is...put the old ones back on and see. Your new wheels could be bent, or just wrong for your car.