Starting problems. Neutral Safety Switch?

[mstevens]

The other night i shut down the 90 Camry DLX 2.0 4 Cyl Auto. Went to start it a few minutes later and all i got was a noticeable drawdown on the interior lights etc. No click from the starter. (A year ago I replaced the starter (with a Bosch) because of a high pitched squeal that I'd get when engaging it. Seems to have fixed the problem because it has only happened twice in the since. I should have checked the flywheel, but since it's been ok I haven't bothered.) Battery also replaced a year ago. When the starter cranks the engine, it starts great! When it doesn't, it appears that the transmission is in gear. I checked the auto shifter and it is in Park. I have tried cycling the shifter and sometimes this seems to help and others it doesn't. I have noticed that I hear a slight pop from the shifter quadrant sometimes as I place it in park and the shifter then fully seats itself in position, but again, i have played with this and pushed on it into 'P' and sometimes success sometimes none. The problem is hard to replicate because overall it works, but within the last week it has happened on 4 different occasions. A mechanic showed me how to jump the switch to the battery to get the starter engaged if it happens again, but while he went to get the test light to check the switch, I got it started and he couldn't replicate at that time.

Any thoughts? I noticed in a Mitchell diagram there is an adjustment on that switch... No idea how to adjust it though. Should I just replace. It's kinda expensive little critter....

[Doctor J]

When this thing happened to one of my customers, I used testing device made by attaching 2 3ft long wires to the small 9v lamp (about 3 Watts).Clip one wire to the small starter terminal, attach other wire to the ground and locate the lamp near the windshield. If with key at start the lamp is not on, the problem could be the ign. or neutral start switch. If the lamp is on, move the first wire to the solenoid output terminal. If next time no crank will take place but lamp is on, the starter brushes are not making a good contact, if light is off, either the main solenoid contacts are bad or the pinion gear is jammed in flex plate teeth, not allowing the plunger to complete its travel.

If the neutral start switch is mis-adjusted it will not allow the starter to be operated in N position (very narrow contact there). I was able to remove, and rebuild my switch, using the internal parts from the junk yard.

[mstevens]

So the neutral safety switch is only for the neutral position and not the park position?

[ozzi]

I not certain about your description, but the issue sounds similar to my 87 Camry SW with an intermittent starting problem. A bench test confirmed the starter. I then started it using the jumper method of starting while I was troubleshooting.

I redid the neutral lockout switch, the ignition switch and removed a security alarm system. It still persisted. All over 20-30 MONTHS!

I had some Dealer work done and a mechanic said his grandmother's Cressida had the same issue. Both of us solved it by adding an additional starting circuit. I used an old power cord and mounted a switch under the dash. Connect one of the other ends to the battery terminal on the starter and the other end to the slide connector on the solenoid. I have to use this circuit about half the time.

The cause is some bad harness connection. In the key START position it will show continuity, but not send enough juice to pull in the solenoid. ACK!!

I have read several threads about this same issue. I wish I could read of an answer to WHY.

[Doctor J]

The neutral start switch is for P and N position. However when it out of adjustment, the starter in park still may work but not in neutral (the contact post inside the switch for N position is only 2 mm wide; the one for park is 6 mm wide). therefore if the starter is not working in N but works in park, the switch must be readjusted.

[mstevens]

Dr J and Ozzi,

Thanks for your help on this. I will try your ideas at the auto hobby shop this week. I was wondering how easy it would be to jump that switch if I couldn't solve it. Sounds pretty easy and with the wiring work I'll get from the testing I am sure this novice can figure out a solution.

Ozzi,

As for the starting problem. I think each problem is unrelated. I beleive I had a bad starter last year that wouldn't engage the flywheel. For some reason, this new bosch one doesn't seem to have an issue since it has only happened twice in a year vs once every few days. This new problem with it seeming like it was in gear and turning the ignition only gets the dash lights to draw down has only started in the last week. I hope this just turns out to be an inexpensive fix.

Thanks!

[JetspeedCamry]

My problem when i got my car was heat. After a drive or on a hot day, if i stopped the motor and then restarted it a little bit later...it wouldnt do anything. Lights would dim but no click or engagment from the starter. So i added an extra relay that is directly connected to the battery.
The key engages this relay instead of the starter solenoid, and then this relay engages the starter solenoid. Works a treat and havnt had the problem since..4 years later.

[ozzi]

The circuit I referred to in my post was pretty cinchy to do. After all I did it.

You'll need about two pieces of wire, ~4 feet long. I used power cord came from an old toaster and the momentary switch came from Radio Shack. I can't remember the PN. I'm old and senile. It has a pretty red square button plunger.

Remove the small panel under the dash. Drill a hole and mount the switch just above your shin near the rear (tailpipe) side of the panel. Wrap the wire around the terminals and solder.

Run the wire through a hole in the firewall. If none found cut one about 1/4-inch dia. from inside the engine compartment. Route the wire from under the dash into the engine area.

Strip one end and attach (solder if possible) a large connector on one side and a bayonnet receptor on the other side. I got mine from an old washing machine. I used a 1-to-2 adapter plugged into the starter blade so that I could attach the bayonnet receptors from the harness and the aux circuit to the starter. This is not necessary. I just wanted to learn what conditions cause the non-start problem.

Connect the large connector to the battery side of the starter. Remove the harness start wire from the solenoid. Plug the bayonnet connector from the new wire onto the solenoid connection.

Remove all flamables and test!

[Doctor J]

Do not forget to put a grommet of some sort into the hole!!!!!
The good safety practice is to use 20 amp in-line fuse placed right after the battery.

[ozzi]

Just a word of caution. This switch bypasses the neutral lockout switch SOO.

You will be able to start in ANY GEAR, including REVERSE and DRIVE. I now make it a habit to pull my emergency brake when I park just to add to the safety.