Need tips on Timing belt replacement

[kauz]

Well, as I said in my other post, I am also replacing the timing belt, water pump, all drive belts, and seals on my 89 Camry (3SFE, USA built). Here are some things I could use some help with.

To replace the oil pump O ring seal, can I just remove the oil pump pulley and then replace the O ring? I don't have to remove the pump body. Right?

Also, part of the right engine mount seems to be between the side wall and the top timing belt cover. Once I remove the bolts on top of the mount, does the piece in front of the belt cover come out?

Any other tips that you could share based on your own experience would be greatly appreciated.

[88 LE]

You mean the left engine mount, unless your looking at the engine from the inside of the car.



I've seen 2 types of engine mounts. One has a metal plate bolted to the side of the engine and the other does not.

The one without the metal plate has 2 nuts holding the engine mount to the engine. You need to get under the car to remove the 2 nuts, support the engine before removing those 2 nuts. Theres also a big long bolt that goes through the middle of the mount, which needs to be removed.




http://www.camrymanuals.com/index.ph...d=3&topicid=0&

^ factory repair manual

[toyomoho]

Find the manual at the link given above. Check to see how the oil pump gear is installed, might need to be pulled off with a puller and there is not much room in this area.

[Doctor J]

The mount by the timing belt is the Right Front (right is referred to the Passenger side on left hand drive cars).On 89 Camry the bracket and spacer are need to come out to allow upper timing cover removal.
The oil pump part containing the shaft, bushing ,sprocket and seal could be removed separately, but the crank sprocket may have to come out to expose one 10 mm screw.

[kauz]

Thank you all for the replies. 88LE, the manual is just priceless! Thanks a bunch.

I will let you all know how the project progresses. I've never done a timing belt before so I figured I try it on my poor old Camry. Don't take me wrong I love this car and I bought it new when I was in College. It's had its problems but overall it's been good to our family.

Thanks again!!

[Doctor J]

Helpful tips:
after placing the cylinder 1 in TDC compression stroke:

• before removing belt, mark the CAMSHAFT sprocket in relation to the cover number 3(as it called in repair manual)
• mark old belt with relation to the cam and crank sprocket
• line up the old and new belts side by side
• transfer marks to the new belt (the old belt may be "1/2 tooth longer" due to stretching but usually the teeth align fairly well)
• install new belt using reference marks, if necessary, turn camshaft sprocket CLOCKWISE to align the marks.

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

The mount by the timing belt is the Right Front (right is referred to the Passenger side on left hand drive cars).

Weird, but at the same time it kinda makes sense.



As for marking the belt and placing #1 at TDC compression, I don't bother. Theres marks on the engine.

[kauz]

Well, here is an update. It's going pretty slow. I have the crank pulley bolt loose now. My whimpy air wrench couldn't do it. I had to use the Haynes' way of using a screw driver and a pry bar to immobilize the pulley while loosening the bolt with a socket and breaker bar.

Another goof up...I marked the belt and the camshaft sprocket and then took the belt off of the camshaft sprocket. Then while trying to get the bolt off of the crank, the crank pulley turned and I could no longer mark the belt and the crank sprocket. But I think I'll be OK I just have to rely on getting the cam and crank pulleys in the right place when I install the belt. We'll see...

And, here's the kicker. Like every one always says, after 150,000+ miles the timing belt looks like new. Almost no signs of wear, only plenty of oil all over it. It seems that the camshaft seal has been leaking. I'm not looking forward to trying to get the bolt off of the camshaft pulley tomorrow.

Later...

[88 LE]

1. Line up the hole on the camgear to the notch on the bearing cap.

2. Turn the crank clockwise till the notch on the crank pulley lines up with the "0" mark on the lower timing belt cover.

OR

Line up the mark on the oil pump pulley to the mark on the oil pump.




Theres a trick to removing the bolt on the camgear. Remove the valve cover and look for a hex shaped section on the camshafts. Use a wrench on that hex shaped section to keep the cams from spinning.

To get to the cam seal, either unbolt the bearing cap going over it or try to pick the seal out somehow.

[Doctor J]

To pull the seal:

• Get two sheet metal screws
• Drive them into the exposed face of the seal 180 degrees apart.
• Using nail puller bar or pliers, pull on the screw heads, alternating between sides in small increments

The similar method is illustrated on the back cover of HAYNES manual
To protect cam from scratches, wrap the shim stock (thin metal strip) around cam and push it under the seal's lip.
To drive the seal in (if bearing cap is not removed), use large short pipe piece, washer and cam sprocket bolt. While holding the intake cam, SLOWLY turn the bolt clockwise until the seal is driven in.
Smear some grease on the seal's lip prior to the installation.

[kauz]

Thanks for the pics and the advice!

The kit that I bought also includes the oil pump seal and the large, thin, and oddly shaped o-ring. So, I'd like to replace the seal and the o-ring. My question is whether I can only remove the oil pump cover and not the oil pump body itself. In the manual it shows the pump body being removed first.

[ycartf]

I just did this on my wife's 1997 Camry I4 and this one is very similar.

You can just remove the oil pump cover without removing the whole oil pump. This exposes the oil pump O-ring and allows you to remove the rotor to replace the oil pump seal. Once I had removed the cover, I wrapped an old timing belt around the oil pump gear and held it still with a firmly applied c-clamp while undoing the bolt/nut. Use caution not to drop or scratch the rotor. Once this rotor is removed you can replace the oil pump seal. You need to clean all the old (and probably now brittle) O-ring off of the cover and the oil pump main body - making sure not to let any of the debris fall into the channels leading from the oil pump to other parts of the engine. An easy way to keep the new O-ring held 100% in its groove while reapplying the cover is to smear some wheel bearing grease along it. I even smeared my fingertip along the length of the O-ring making sure it was tacky and secured in place throughout before reapplying the cover.

Be careful with those small bolts that secure the cover to the oil pump body - they are small with low torques. Even though I was only torqueing them to the spec, I had one break off once it was reinstalled and torqued. Fortunately, it was the lowest one in a position that I could easily reach straight-on through the wheel-well and removed it with a left-handed drill bit.

I also found it was a bit difficult to keep the timing belt in the right position on the cam AND apply enough tightness to pull it into the right position on the crank. I ended up backing the crank up one tooth with a large screwdriver through the starter hole on the flywheel, then putting the timing belt easily into the right position on both cam and crank, then advancing the crank forward that one tooth into just right position for both. As someone else mentioned, there is a hexed section of the camshaft that you can hold with a large wrench (after removing valve cover - probably need to replace that valve cover gasket anyway - about $25) to allow you to remove the cam gear. I wedge a prybar into the flywheel to hold it still while I remove the crank gear. I read and see everyone talking about installing grease seals with a large socket or something - but those are tight areas and the best thing I have found is to lube the seal and the shaft it is going to seal around with wheel bearing grease, then slowly and evenly push it in with my fingers - always having pressure on either side of it 180 degrees apart. This has worked for me with the 90 V6 I had to do this on, and the 97 I4 I did this on a few days ago.

ALSO - to find the correct position for the cam and crank if either or both of them have moved:

CAM - Look with a mirror through the hole in the cam gear and line it over the notch behind it (someone included an excellent picture of this above).

CRANK - The crank gear has a small (and I mean very small and having to be deliberately looking for it) depression between two of the teeth - on the engine/inner side of it - and this should line up with a small protrusion behind it on the oil pump body. If you are uncertain about whether you see the right markings for the crank (as they are a bit harder to both find) temporarily put the lower timing belt cover back on (just held in place is fine) and temporarily put the crank pulley back on. If you have lined up the small markings I mentioned correctly - the crank pulley notch should be lined up with "0" TDC on the markings of the timing belt cover.


I hope this helps and that you have great success.

Tracy

[kauz]

Tracy, thanks for the great tips. It's always nice to hear from people who have just completed the same job, as they remember all the tricky parts of the job.

Thanks to everyone's help I finished the timing belt and seal replacements. Here are my tips for anyone else who might try this job.

1. First of all, to do this job right, it requires a lot of sockets, extensions and ratchets of different sizes and lengths, due to the tight spaces that you are dealing with. I ended up using almost every tool that I had bought in the past which I'd thought I'd never use.

2. I was having a lot of trouble getting the top timing belt cover off. Eventually I was able to turn it and yank it out. But, I was not able to get it back in during the installation without loosening the three bolts holding the engine mount bracket to the side of the engine block. (This bracket is on the side of the engine facing the fender wall, and in between the top and bottom timing belt covers.) And let me tell you, loosening those three bolts and tightenning them back took me a long, long, (embarassingly long) time. Others may know of another way withouit loosening this bracket. But, like I said, I saw no other way of getting the top cover on without moving this bracket back a bit. I did not remove the bolts, only loosened them a few turns.

3. As tracy said above, when insalling the new timing belt, you should leave the crank pulley at around the "10" mark instead of the "0" mark. then when you release the tensioner pulley and turn the crank, it will pull it forward by about one timing-belt tooth. Make sure you re-check both the crank and CAM's marks again after turning the crank two full revolutions using a socket and a ratchet. The crank's mark should be dead on the "0" mark.

4. When checking the CAM's marking through the hole using a mirror, make sure that you hold the mirror a 45 degrees relative to the sprocket and shine the light at the mirror (instead of the CAM's sprocket) or you will never see the mark.

5. I was able to push in the crank seal evently with my fingers as Tracy suggested. But, I had a bit of trouble with the CAM seal. It started going in kind of lop-sided and then I could not get it out to start over, and had to push it in with a jig consisting of a short piece of pipe, the bolt from the idler pulley, and the slotted rail from the power steering pump (which I had already removed).

6. Also, the first time I installed the timing belt and released the tensioner pulley, it was off by one tooth and I had to get the belt off. I had forgotten about Tracy's tip . The manual says to pry the tensioner pulley back with a screw driver, tighten the pulley bolt and then remove the belt. I was afraid that I might damage the belt (even with a cloth over it) so I just removed the spring with a long nose pliers and then moved the pulley down and got the belt off. Becareful to not drop the spring behind the bottom cover.

Well, that's all I can remember worth mentioning. My final advice is that if there is only one repair that is worth paying for, it probably is the timing belt. Most Toyota dealers will do the belt for under $300. I wanted it to do it myself because I had never done a timing belt before. Plus, I also did the CAM seal, the crank seal, the oil pump seals, installed a new water pump, installed new drive belts, and replaced the valve cover seal. I suppose doing all that would have cost me a lot more than just $300. And, franky, it was a lot of fun, but you have to be patient, have the right tools, and take frequent breaks.

Again, many thanks to every one who replied to this post.

kauz

[ycartf]

Just FYI - but your estimate of $300 is VERY low. Read on -


I am going to help a friend of mine do this on his wife's 2001 I4 Camry in a couple of weeks. I did (and what his needs) is:

New timing belt
New tensioner pulley
New idler pulley
New tensioner spring
New cam seal
New crank seal
New oil pump seal
New oil pump seal O-ring
New water pump with 2 new gaskets and O-rings
New thermostat and O-ring
New valve cover gasket and spark plug tubes
New alternator/AC belt
New PS belt

I got the parts listed in bold for $72.50 (per kit) shipped on eBay (NGK pulleys and water pump and Continental belts good stuff). The first kit was $75 and the second one that they did not have to list on eBay was $70.

I got the rest of the parts from an imported automotive parts store here in our area (Southeast Alabama) for $76.17 with tax.

This is a total in parts of $148.67
The local Toyota place gave him an estimate to do MOST (not all) of that stuff - $1,100 (in a cheaper cost-of-living area)

So feel content - you saved yourself more than $300 - plus you have the satisfaction of knowing how to do it for yourself and possibly helping someone out with one in the future.

BTW - that coating with wheel bearing grease trick to keep the O-ring in place for the oil pump - it works with coating a cork ATF gasket (when you cannot get the rubber ones) to keep it laying flatter and tacky enough to cling where you want it. RTV can mess things up in areas like that.

CONGRATULATIONS

[kauz]

I'm just curious if anyone else had trouble with getting the top timing belt ccover on. Anyone?