3SFE to 3SGE swap

[Percentage]

So, before i get flamed I did do some searches on 3sge swaps and I'd like to ask some seriously noob questions, and maybe consolidate them a bit so it's easier to find for other people wanting to do swaps.


So first and foremost, what would be the best possible [aka easiest and most efficient] swap to the 3SGE from my camry's 3SFE


I have a 1989 Toyota Camry 2.0L 3SFE with 268k miles on it, and i'm looking at getting a new engine, so i figured why not big.

I need to know what generation of 3SGE, or from what car the engine would swap the easiest and what parts i need exactly for the swap. [engine, transmission, wiring harness, ecu, etc.] If I know what I need, I shouldn't have any issues doing the hunting down of parts myself and I'll try to find the diagrams myself as well. I would like to say though, that this is my first swap, but i'm getting a ton of help from a friend who is currently being certified and NADC and few swaps under his belt.

I greatly appreciate any help anyone throws my direction.

Ian

[atobe]

any generation will do. you're going to need engine,ecu and most importantly UNCUT harness. camyfour did the swap. he has a 1st gen 3sge in his camry

[Percentage]

Awesome, thanks for the help.

It seems to be harder than i thought to find a 3sge complete swap online, let alone the parts individually besides the block. Does anyone know any good toyota importer sites that i could get a 3sge complete swap or even a better listing of the parts?

I checked Ebay [obviously], Venus Auto, and Panda Auto. Along with a few general searches for parts online. Junk yards are a last resort for me since i haven't had good luck with finding parts at my local one.


Thanks for the help guys.

[TTercel]

Power to you man I was actually thinking of doing something like this but its hard to find a good condition gen 2 Camry hahaha

Try this site http://www.jdmsource.ca/

[Percentage]

Alas, even there, no luck. haha.


I've been able to find 3GTE's everywhere, but i don't feel like dropping 1300 on a swap, and i'm perfectly fine with an N/A engine right now.

any other sites?

[camryfour]

Originally Posted by Percentage

Alas, even there, no luck. haha.


I've been able to find 3GTE's everywhere, but i don't feel like dropping 1300 on a swap, and i'm perfectly fine with an N/A engine right now.

any other sites?

1300 isn't too much for a whole swap, especially a 3sgte. You will spend about the same (maybe more) for a 2nd gen and higher 3sge swap. If you want to save money and a headache finding all the parts find an old wrecked GTS and pull all the wiring/electronics/engine/tranny and go from there. My camry has the US spec GTS stuff picked up from a local junk yard for pretty cheap. IMHO, there's no sense in spending a lot of money on a swap if it's not the 3sgte or a beams 3sge lol. One day I plan to go 3sgte, but for now I'm sticking with the 3sge till it dies again .

[Percentage]

Yeah, i planned on looking into some local venues including the junk yard for as much of the parts as possible, because you said it best, no point in paying a lot unless you're getting the best. Since i can't really afford to drop the kind of money a Beams 3SGE or a 3SGTE requires for an engine right now, I'm going to find the most economical way of doing this swap without sacrificing much in the way of power.

Mostly, i need to get a new engine before my 3sfe dies, but I don't want to stick another 3sfe into my camry. So i'll be sure to look in the junk yard for wiring, ecu's, etc. to make the swap easier on my wallet.

Thanks for the advice.

[HomeGrown]

IMHO, $1300 sounds like a GREAT deal for the 3SGTE, tranny, ECU, and wiring harness!

I haven't read much on this swap... it it a total PITA, or is it a pretty straight-forward swap?

[Percentage]

From what i understand, it drops right in fairly easily. There is plenty of space inside an 89 Camry for a 3SGE or a 3SGTE, but if i went with a 3SGTE i would have to do some modification to get the intercooler in a good spot.

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by HomeGrown

IMHO, $1300 sounds like a GREAT deal for the 3SGTE, tranny, ECU, and wiring harness!

I agree.

I was looking at a clip years ago when my 3S-FE grenaded a piston. IIRC I was quoted $1500 by Venus Auto for either a MR2 Turbo or Celica GT4 clip (225hp version).

I haven't read much on this swap... it it a total PITA, or is it a pretty straight-forward swap?

The engine pretty much bolts right in. Its the wiring, transmission, etc... thats a PITA.

If you buy a clip, either a MR2 Turbo or Celica All Trac / GT4. The transmission will not work as is. MR2s don't have power steering, so its something else you have to work out (drill and tap the block for a ps pump?). There may be other issues, but those are the ones I can think of for now.


E-153 (from MR2 Turbo) modifications to work in FWD application:

http://www.geocities.com/zegoat2000/e1531.html


Tranny from Celica All Trac / GT4 requires that you take it apart and do something with the differential. I've seen pictures and instructions on a forum, but I don't remember where.


Theres also a E-153 from a gen 4 V6 Camry or Solara.




The person you want to ask is Charlie (white90dx). He has a gen 2 with 3S-GTE + tranny from a ST205.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by 88 LE

The person you want to ask is Charlie (white90dx). He has a gen 2 with 3S-GTE + tranny from a ST205.

Who, me?

[Percentage]

Well, the plan so far is to use a 3S-GTE from a 91-93 MR2, but i suppose i do need to some more reading up on the conversion. lol. [sorry for being so new to this, i appreciate the help i've gotten so far] Also, 1300 was a little wrong on the estimate. Looking at closer to 2200 now, sorry for the confusion there too.


Hey Charlie, if you don't mind me asking, what were some problems you ran into when doing your 3S-GTE swap?


88 LE, as far as the wiring and etc. what are some of the issues you're referring to?
Also can you explain a little bit about the transmission not working as is? Are you referring to it being a Mid-Rearwheel drivetrain being converted to FWD?

-If that's the case, could you use a tranny for a 3SFE or a 3SGE hooked up to a 91-93 MR2 3S-GTE?

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by white90dx

Who, me?

Yes, you.

Originally Posted by Percentage

as far as the wiring and etc. what are some of the issues you're referring to?

Also can you explain a little bit about the transmission not working as is? Are you referring to it being a Mid-Rearwheel drivetrain being converted to FWD?

The wiring is not just plug and play. It needs to pieced together from your orginal harness (3S-FE) and the engine your swapping in (3S-GTE or 3S-GE).


Transmission from a MR2 has the shift levers on the front. This will not work for a FWD application, which is why it needs to be modified.

Celica All Trac / GT4 are all wheel drive.

If that's the case, could you use a tranny for a 3SFE or a 3SGE hooked up to a 91-93 MR2 3S-GTE?

You can, although its better to use a E-153 as it'll hold more power.

If your buying a MR2 Turbo clip, you might as well use the tranny from it and modify it to work. No sense dumping it or leave it sitting around collecting dust.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by Percentage

Well, the plan so far is to use a 3S-GTE from a 91-93 MR2, but i suppose i do need to some more reading up on the conversion. lol. [sorry for being so new to this, i appreciate the help i've gotten so far] Also, 1300 was a little wrong on the estimate. Looking at closer to 2200 now, sorry for the confusion there too.


Hey Charlie, if you don't mind me asking, what were some problems you ran into when doing your 3S-GTE swap?


88 LE, as far as the wiring and etc. what are some of the issues you're referring to?
Also can you explain a little bit about the transmission not working as is? Are you referring to it being a Mid-Rearwheel drivetrain being converted to FWD?

-If that's the case, could you use a tranny for a 3SFE or a 3SGE hooked up to a 91-93 MR2 3S-GTE?

Use a Celica 3s-gte motor. The long-block is physically the same between the MR2 and Celica, but the water necks, accessories and wiring harness are not FWD friendly on the MR2 motor. Celica clips are often reasonably cheap, from what I have seen. Make sure you get a '90+ version. The '87-'89 3s-gte is not well supported in the aftermarket.

Overall, I ran into very few problems with my swap. Waiting on parts took much of the time... Don't underestimate the wiring (you should have good diagrams of your car and the donor motor/car). I'm an electrical engineer and it still took me over 50 hours to do the harness (working slow, this was my first swap!). It was a 10 month process in total (motor swap, wiring, custom parts), though it could have gone much faster if I had more free time to work on it.

The 3s-fe/3s-ge manual tranny bolts right up to the 3s-gte. You will need to use a 3s-gte flywheel and pressure plate with a custom clutch (Spec makes one specifically for that application). If you plan on making much more power than a stock 3s-gte, I would investigate using a better tranny (FWD converted MR2 turbo tranny, Camry/Solara V6 manual tranny, or FWD converted Celica AWD tranny).

Also, be prepared to spend $4k-$10k on the project, depending on the quality of the parts you choose and how much work you do yourself.

-Charlie

[Percentage]

Awesome, seriously, thanks for the advice.

I have a lot to take into consideration and this swap is a ways down the road, I mostly wanted to get as much information as I could pieced together to understand what needs to be done and the most efficient and cost effective way to do the swap. I'll be honest and say that i'm still debating on whether or not to go to a 3S-GTE or just the 3S-GE. The reason being that I'm not exactly sure I need the extra 100 hp unless i plan to smoke a lot of local cars down at the track. This car is intended to be my daily-driver but I do want more power out of my camry than what I have right now, a dying 3SFE.

Thanks again guys, I'm sure i'll keep posting in here ideas on parts and different swap questions. Also, Charlie, I had some time to look over your thread on your swap and I'm very impressed with the way yours turned out and it's definitely a metaphorical light at the end of the tunnel for this invisioned project.