Helping Friend with his 2g camry , Would love some help please! I have questions!!

[RedSIBaron]

Hi, im new to this site, i dont drive a camry/toyota, but i am basicly building a 2g camry with the 3sfe for/with my friend, i myself drive an 02 civic si hatch(soon to be full type r) and an 86 si hatch...we have already done a lot of work on my friends camry, but we are running into some troubles that arent helping us move ahead, so we desperately need your help...

First off, brakes...we have a problem and i think its the master cylinder...what happens is when we push on the brake slowly it goes all the way to the floor without much resistence, but if we jab at the pedal quick, its hard as a rock...the fluid is not leaking...we bled the brakes lastnight and it didnt fix the problem...when i bled them, the right front and left rear crossover i got pretty bled and air was not bubbling out and when i released the valve it stayed stiff, when i bled the left front right rear cross over i kept getting huge airbubbles and when i released the valve the pedal would just fall to the floor...but as i said no leaking...so id love some experience here if anyones got it before i have my friend replace his master cylinder and brake booster...

second, wheel studs...the tire place my buddy got his tires over torqued them, and 1 on either side of the rears just twisted off the other night, really aggravating...but we are probably going to be replacing those tonight, so my question is if you have any advice for these studs? or are they pretty straight forward like any other stud installation...

third, lowering springs...are these intrax springs any good, they make me nervous...anyone used eibach? are there springs off a celica or corolla that work with the camry? info would be appreciated here

fourth!!! header options...what options do i have? can i use the celica 3sfe pacesetter header? or will it not clear frame/suspension geometry/oilpan/whatever else toyota put in the way...??? if it clears great, i dont care if it wont bolt up to the cat or exhaust anymore, im going to custom fab a stainless exhaust for him anyway...

fifth!!!!!!11!one!!1! shifter options? the throw on this manual is unacceptable, so its time to fix the problem...are there short shifters and where can i get one? OR as ive been planning on doing i picked up a good condition shifter from the junkyard, and i was going to modify it for shorter throws...has anyone modified one? and if so, id love some info on what you did, i know how i plan to do it, but you all work ont hese cars and this is the first time for me, so info helps!!

lastly, are there any differences between the 3sfe in the celica and the 3sfe in the camry that i should know about that i might be interested in swapping various engine parts over to my friends camry to get more power?? or am i looking at the same engine?? and is the tranny the same? would he prefer the celica tranny if its any different?


well i guess that just about covers it for now...i appreciate any info you guys can throw my way!!! thanks a lot!!!

[Doctor J]

You could be a great story writer.
I would answer the brake question.
The rubber cups on the master cylinders pistons are working as one way valve/ piston rings.
if there is any water contamination or deposits in the master cylinder, these seals cannot hold on slow brake application. The best thing is to remove the master cylinder, to take it apart, and inspect components.
Start with the bore:
If there are any pits or deep scratches, replace the cylinder assembly.
If bore is good, get rebuilt kit and change all rubber parts.
Note that some low quality rebuilds are sometimes cheaper then the good kit, but they won't last long.
Use distilled water to clean metal patrs, dry them out, put the rubber seals and assemble the cylinder.
ALLWAYS bench bleed it prior to installation.

[white90dx]

Listen to Dr. J for the brakes...

Wheels studs are straightforward.

Intrax springs are ok-ish. B&G also makes springs, but I don't have personal experience with them. Make sure you get upgraded struts with either option. I would advise against springs from other cars, but ST182/ST184 (Celica non-all-trac) should also fit in the spring perches for the most part.

The Pacesetter header fits fine. I had one on my old Camry. Use stock gaskets wherever possible. You will need to weld on an O2 sensor bung, but otherwise it bolts up.

Most '99 and earlier Toyota FWD shifters work in place of the Camry one. Celica ones have a shorter throw (I have a JDM Celica GT4 one in my car right now). Optionally, you can cut the top off. TWM makes multiple Toyota short throw shifters too.

Celica and Camry 3s-fe engine and tranny are the same. The one minor difference is the final drive in the transmission.

-Charlie

[RedSIBaron]

excelent thanks a lot!!...yah that makes a lot of sense, and was actually along the lines i was thinking...i wasnt sure exactly how toyota did it, but i was thinking it was a seal problem in the MC...the price on a replacement from autozone isnt all that bad (ive used autozone MC rebuilds in hondas with great luck so i trust them), so he may just say screw it and we'll replace it...

as for the springs, we are putting bilstein shocks on the car...i would never ever let anyone put springs on a car without shocks...thats just asking for it...awesome ill check out b&g springs

thats good to hear about the header...yah stock gaskets are good, ill probably also do the studs while im at it...

DAMMIT, i should have finished pulling the celica shifter the other day at the junkyard...our original plan was to find a celica shifter and pull it and see how it matched the camry one, but we didnt want to buy 2 assemblies for hte yard, so we went with the camry (since atleast we could modify it, where as the celica one if it didnt work would have been trash)...ah well ill go get that later this week!!! WICKED

as for the tranny, i like the sound of a different final drive, what are we looking at difference in ratio wise? my friend is looking for some torque, so this could be good info...heh hell i have a 495 final in my 86 si...somehow, i dont think it will be that aggressive HAHA

in any case, thanks a lot guys for the great information!!! i know exactly what direction i need to head in now!!

-Charles

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by RedSIBaron

DAMMIT, i should have finished pulling the celica shifter the other day at the junkyard...our original plan was to find a celica shifter and pull it and see how it matched the camry one, but we didnt want to buy 2 assemblies for hte yard, so we went with the camry (since atleast we could modify it, where as the celica one if it didnt work would have been trash)...ah well ill go get that later this week!!! WICKED

as for the tranny, i like the sound of a different final drive, what are we looking at difference in ratio wise? my friend is looking for some torque, so this could be good info...heh hell i have a 495 final in my 86 si...somehow, i dont think it will be that aggressive HAHA

in any case, thanks a lot guys for the great information!!! i know exactly what direction i need to head in now!!

-Charles

You just need the shift lever, not the complete assembly... so it should be quite cheap to pull from the junkyard...

The final drive on the Camry puts the car at like 3k rpm at 80mph, the Celica is more like 3k rpm at 60mph.

-Charlie

[RedSIBaron]

oh i know i dont need the whole assemblies, im just refering to the linkage with all the springs and such, thats just easiest way to pull in anyway...

as for the transmission that sounds like a rather fun improvement, ill do some digging i guess and try to come up with final drive ratios, but that gives me the idea its worth looking for heh...

awesome thanks again

[es250nut]

Originally Posted by white90dx

You just need the shift lever, not the complete assembly... so it should be quite cheap to pull from the junkyard...

The final drive on the Camry puts the car at like 3k rpm at 80mph, the Celica is more like 3k rpm at 60mph.

-Charlie

Interesting Charlie: I've noticed the Alltrac & ES250 both sit at 3k when they are doing 60 in 5th. I don't remember what the DX that I sent you the shift cables off of did in 5th though. But I do know that on all of the Camry's with the automatic that we have owned have done around 2k @ 60mph.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by RedSIBaron

oh i know i dont need the whole assemblies, im just refering to the linkage with all the springs and such, thats just easiest way to pull in anyway...

as for the transmission that sounds like a rather fun improvement, ill do some digging i guess and try to come up with final drive ratios, but that gives me the idea its worth looking for heh...

awesome thanks again

You don't need anything but the lever itself. The later plastic based ones are easier to remove along with the whole shifter base, but the earlier metal ones (like in the Camry) are easier to just unbolt the lever only.

-Charlie

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by es250nut

Interesting Charlie: I've noticed the Alltrac & ES250 both sit at 3k when they are doing 60 in 5th. I don't remember what the DX that I sent you the shift cables off of did in 5th though. But I do know that on all of the Camry's with the automatic that we have owned have done around 2k @ 60mph.

Yeah, the E52 gearbox has the same final drive as the other Camry V6 transmissions and Celica all-trac/GT4. The MR2 Turbo has a higher final drive (more RPMs at the same speed) and it makes cruising on the freeway pretty crappy.

I think much of the gas mileage I've lost since the swap (I get 20-25mpg now instead of 28mpg+) is because of the change in the final drive.

-Charlie

[RedSIBaron]

excelent, im really interested in this with the transmissions...im going to poke around our wonderful junk yard on saturday and see what i can dig up transmission wise, sometimes they have $50 transmission sales, but im definitely picking up the shifter...so what you were saying (just to make sure) i ONLY need the actually solid piece shifter? like the metal shifter arm that attaches to the rounded pivot point and then has an arm attached to a cable...i dont need the springs and all those mechanics?? this is what i thought, but just making sure, since i want to take the camry shifter we already have and take it with me to the yard and compare it to other shifters that i pull out and try to find the shortest one i possibly can...

ANYWAY i was out workin on my buddies car lastnight from 5:30pm until 1am doing various work on the rear hub...soooo where should i start...tuesday we ran around to 4 autozones buying the 10 wheels studs we needed for the rear, we picked up a spring rebuild kit, new shoes, and a new master cylinder...i started with the right rear...the one that i couldnt get to stop spitting air bubbles...
...i pull the drum off to find............WET BRAKE DUST!!! YAY!!!!!!

wait... ...sh!t!!.... i pull the bearing assembly and the shoes, and i poke the seals on the wheel cylinder and brake fluid goes all over my fingers...awesome...so i had my buddy run to advanced and he picked up 2 new wheel cylinders...got the new one installed in the right rear, put it all together, GOOD AS NEW

now as for the left rear, its good as new esentially, i came to that conclusion after finding a bone dry brake assembly (THANK THE MAKER!!) that the brake was working quite well...now the tricky part is i figured that since i could i would, and replace the cylinder on the other side...well the brake line didnt want to come off easy like on the other side, so i decided that it worked perfectly and that im not replacing it .

after that i had to get wheel studs in, and i realized i wasnt at my parents house and my fathers machine shop, so i didnt have a vice to help me align and hammer those puppies in like ive done on my old hondas without problems, so i carefully seated them, and threw a brake drum over the hub, alligned that on the wheel, got the studs set in, and used new open lugs to walk it on and used a torque wrench to make sure they were all in there good
...so...

all in all long story, but it worked out in the end that we got all that work done, but we went to drive the car and well...it gave us the old ... and the brakes are still doing what they were, i figured they still would but i was hoping i didnt have to do the master cylinder......but they do work better and ill just have to do the MC this weekend while my buddy mounts some parts and seals the trunk up... and hopefully the MC fixes the problem, but if it doesnt we really only have 2 more options cuz all 4 cylinders are fine and none of the lines are leaking...and a proportioning valve or brake booster shouldnt be too bad...

well thats the update...sorry for such a long post, but i hope the smileys made it more interesting


**edit** forgot to mention, we got yellow fogs on it too...everyone loves fogs right *grin*

[RedSIBaron]

alright guys, im doing the master cylinder this weekend on the g2 camry...is there anything i should be worried about or are there any quirky things that the removal and install entails?

any info im sure will help greatly...
thanks again!
-Charles

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by RedSIBaron

alright guys, im doing the master cylinder this weekend on the g2 camry...is there anything i should be worried about or are there any quirky things that the removal and install entails?

any info im sure will help greatly...
thanks again!
-Charles

Nothing special to it.... go for it! (ok, make sure you use flare nut wrenches... but that's it)

-Charlie

[RedSIBaron]

ahh flare nut wrenches...great idea, i think im going to go pick up a set after work, ive been meaning ot get some and they would help a lot from now on!!

also how long should this take you think if i blaster the hell out of it and everything comes off smoothly?


(optional backstory as to why i need to know time frame)
cuz my other friend tore the bumper off his m3 cuz the car is way too much of an animal for him since he doesnt know how to drive and doesnt know what the hell apexing is...anyway, hes leaving for rhode island in 2 days and lastnight he goes "hey man, i know you've been working on the camry and are probably tired of working on cars (HAHAHAHA YA RIGHT TIRED OF WORKING ON CARS!!!! ) but do you mind helping me put the bumper back on the bmw before i leave town?"...so of course i said yes, cuz ill help my friends out, but i mention to him "i wish youd have said something last week, i told you when it happened that id like to get it done lastweek when i had time"...his response is "well you should have said something"..."DUDE ITS YOUR CAR!!!"...haha...so basicly i dont know how long thats going to take, and depending on how long the master cylinder will take id like to get that done first and have more time to work on the bmw, cuz those things are usually a complete bitch to work on...

[Doctor J]

Prior to master cylinder removal:
with engine off press the pead l hard few times;
set the parking brake,
siphone fluid from the reaservoir;
using flare nut 10 mm wrench , break loose the fittings.
{make sure the wrench is fully covering the hex part of the fitting. Use steady pulling force, avoid impacts-the wrench may slip!!).

[RedSIBaron]

excellent thanks a lot...this sounds like a fairly quick install...*cross fingers*