Hesitation/Sputtering Problem, espicially up hills - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
1st & 2nd Generation (19831986 & 1987-1991) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1983-1986 & 1987-1991. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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#1 Old 11-08-2007, 01:30 PM
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Hesitation/Sputtering Problem, espicially up hills

Hi, I just purchased a 1988 Camry, and noticed right away that it has problems taking off quickly (seems to bog down) until the RPM's are up to about 3500 or 4000, then it seems to be fine and have lots of power. It also has great difficulty going up hills, of which I happen to live at the very top of. It will go up in first or 2nd no prob, but again bogs down when the RPMs are down. Catalytic Converter? Clogged fuel filter? Any ideas??

Thanks!
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#2 Old 11-08-2007, 02:17 PM
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Try new spark plugs and fuel filter before anything major (ie catalytic converter)

Check the wires and distributor cap while you're doing the plugs too...

'01 Tundra SR5 2UZ-FE 2WD
'89 X-tra cab 22RE 2WD
'91 SR5 4Runner 3VZE 4WD (sold)
'88 Camry LE 3SFE (sold)
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#3 Old 11-08-2007, 07:48 PM
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Could also be your coil, do you have any trouble starting when its raining?

1990 Gen2 - 305,000KM
Gen 2 - 6 Camry Manuals!
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#4 Old 11-08-2007, 09:30 PM
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since you "just purchased it," you may need to do a major tune up.

As was mentioned, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, oil and oil filter change, fuel filter, air filter.

and while everything is apart, carefully clean out the throttle body with Deep Creep and a toothbrush.
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#5 Old 12-03-2007, 07:11 PM
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Hello everybody.

Im new to this forum, and a new owner of a 1990 white Camry V6 2.5L GX-i (MT). I have to say, this forum is simply great! Ive learned a lot about my Camry and cars in general thanks to it. Im very new to cars and how they work, but ive started reading a lot and wish to fix as many issues as i can by myself.

Anyway my car has got some issues seemingly very related to this thread so i post it here instead of creating a similar one.

When started cold, its no problem. But when the engine starts to warm up and the car is in motion, it starts to hesitate and or knock at low RPM such as <2500-3000, especially at gear 1-3. Other times, this doesnt happen at all. And usually, after the engine and car in general is thoroughly warm, the knock only starts at very low RPM such as <1300. It idles pretty rough as well, and the rough idle happens at the same times as i told about the car while it is in motion. When the car doesnt knock or hesitate in motion, it also performs perfect idling. At worst tho, it might stall, but that has only happened couple of times.

When i drove the car the first time, and the first week after i bought it, it had much less trouble with this "knocking/hesitating". It started to get noticable after i drove the car almost out of gas one time and when i drove to the gas-station it really knock'ed a lot. After filling up some 10-15L tho, it still continued with the knocking as i told earlier.

After talking to friends and colleagues about this, i got hints that the issue might primarely be that the gas tank might contain some moist that gets to the fuel injector and is causing it to mix wrongly air and gas, or something like that. After hearing this i bought a small bottle of anti-icer for aprox. right gas tank and filled it up and also filled the gas up full correctly according to the instruction of the de-icer. Not at first, but slowly and firmly the knocking, and hesitation in the throttle has started to fade away almost back as it were before it first started to elevate to the really annoying level. But i feel there is something more wrong, the engine still knocks way more than im used to normally, and it is still more of an rough ride than i wish of this or any car. Also, the gas mileage seams to be poorer than usual cars with similar specs, but im not so sure since i havent really checked it thoroughly enough. But its something to have in mind as well. Also, seems like the weather effects all this as well, air humidity etc. But i cant be sure, the issue seems random at times.

Are there parts that i especially should look further into for tuning the engine to run smoother? Help is heartly appreciated

Last edited by maiser; 12-03-2007 at 07:17 PM.
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#6 Old 12-03-2007, 08:32 PM
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I used to have the same problem. I found that after i got my timing belt replaced that shuttering is gone. This leads that the timing is off. Check that out! Do you know how long its been since you got the timing belt replaced?

------------------------
1990 Camry DX

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#7 Old 12-03-2007, 10:10 PM
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I made write-up on cam timing check procedure(sorry, no pictures)Hope this helps:

Camry 3S-fe cam timing check

The most common reason for timing belt to jump the tooth if the engine is rotated counterclockwise (S. Kornienko), or the belt is too loose. The properly tensioned timing belt must allow to be twisted no more then 90 degrees between the water pump and camshaft sprockets (L. Carley).
The incorrect valve timing must be suspected if:
  • The engine has sluggish acceleration, low fuel economy and incorrect idle speed
  • The distributor must be rotated too far to obtain 10 degree setting
The crank sprocket (Figure 1, position 2) has 24 teeth; each tooth is equal to 15 degrees of crankshaft revolution. The camshaft sprocket (Figure 2, position1) has 48 teeth, with one tooth equal 7.5 degrees of camshaft revolution.
So in case the belt is one tooth off, the ignition timing will also be 15 degrees off 10 degree BDTC mark.
If there is a suspicion that the cam timing is off (the belt jumped) the test could be made as follows:
  • Remove the 4 inch rubber plug from the upper timing cover to expose the cam sprocket;
  • Using inspection mirror locate the alignment hole in the cam sprocket
  • Remove the spark plugs, except for cylinder number one
  • Rotate the engine clockwise by placing socket head on the alternator pulley nut, until the hole in the sprocket aligns with the mark on the bearing cap;
  • Now take look on the timing scale near the crank pulley--- if the belt jumped, the timing mark will be off by 15 degrees (it must be on the 0).
As a side note, it makes much more convenient to align the cam sprocket by placing the additional alignment mark on the sprocket rim and timing cover number 3. (This is done on my car). The misalignment by one tooth will throw marks almost 8 mm apart, making such event hard to miss.
In addition the cam timing may be off due to following reasons:
· Broken camshaft –to–cam sprocket drive pin (on both sprockets the timing marks will match, but the cam will be “late” relative to sprocket)
· The rubber in the crank pulley will deteriorate and the outer section containing the timing mark will drift counterclockwise as a result of alternator belt tension (this will lead to the wrong conclusion that the cam is advanced), therefore is good idea to match mark the pulley hub to its outer section (where the timing mark is).
· Damaged crankshaft-to-crankshaft sprocket woodruff key — the cam timing will be retarded and timing marks will not mach. This needs to be checked if belt is tight.
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#8 Old 12-04-2007, 04:38 AM
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Thanks, i will check out the timing. I have the 2VZ-FE engine, is the timing belt test the same as with the 3S-FE engine?
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#9 Old 12-04-2007, 08:51 AM
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No, 2VZ-fe is checked differentlu and it is much harder to check.
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#10 Old 12-04-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
No, 2VZ-fe is checked differentlu and it is much harder to check.
Ill read the manual and camrymanuals.com for further instructions, and see what i can do about it.

Btw, is the engine supposed to knock/drag on these cars at low RPM around 1500-2000? The manual says the car should be operated between 2000 - 3000 RPM, but i would at least think that it started knocking when its under 1000-1500, like most(new) cars.

Edit: I also have a question about the throttle. My Camry really hits the engine as soon as the throttle is pushed in. It doesnt need to be pushed all the way in for this, just normal throttling is enough for a rough "accelration"(but when i slowly push the throttle more and more in as the car speeds up, this doesnt happen), and when i take the foot of the throttle suddenly it gives the same rough thing just the other way naturally. It doesnt feel right.

Last edited by maiser; 12-04-2007 at 11:16 AM.
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#11 Old 12-06-2007, 01:31 PM
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Ok so i did a diagnostic check and got these results:

xx xxxx
xx xxxxx
xx xxxxxx

Which means something can be wrong with(right?):
- code 24: Intake air temp. sensor signal
- code 25: Air/Fuel ratio lean malfunction
- code 26: Air/Fuel ratio rich malfunction

While i was at it i cleaned the throttle body to some extend and damn was it dirty inside there.
I didnt drive the car that much after i cleaned it, but i drove it enough so the engine got warm. And it seams to have helped already. Now the car is very good at cold start(as always, that has never been the problem), and when it warms up a little hesitation takes place especially up hills but nothing biggie like before. Idle is also a little unstable still when the engine is warmed up, but very little. Usually its stable at 750RPM but at worst +/- 100 RPM from the ideal idle.

I did a search on "throttle body cleaning" and sow ppl at the forum which use throttle cleaner, toothbrush and a clean cloth to remove the dirt out of the valve. But i just used a toothbrush and some cleaning spirit. I didnt have any throttle cleaner available. Will the result will be a lot better if i used the throttle body cleaner? And can someone be kind and explain me how its supposed to be used? I got confused since ive read some start their engine while the valve is open, and spray the cleaner inside. How should i do this?

Last edited by maiser; 12-06-2007 at 01:33 PM.
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#12 Old 12-06-2007, 02:25 PM
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Well, if you would be able pull the codes earlier it will make trobleshooting easier:


Intake air temp. sensor signalOpen or short circuit in intake air temp. sensor signal (THA).
  • intake air temp. sensor circuit
  • intake air temp. sensor
  • ECU
The other two codes are probably result of code 24
remove air flow meter and check condition of both sides of the connector, making sure that no female terminals are bent or pushed in.
Then do the bench test for AFM.
Visually inspect the sensor-It looks like small white pin 1/4 in dia, 1/2 in long sticking into the airlow channel.

Last edited by Doctor J; 12-06-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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#13 Old 12-06-2007, 03:00 PM
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"But i just used a toothbrush and some cleaning spirit. I didnt have any throttle cleaner available."

This is not a very good idea. If your cars use O2 sensors in Norway, chemicals that are not O2 sensor safe can easily destroy the O2 sensor. Next time use only O2 safe throttle body cleaner or O2 safe carb cleaner.

Here is a link with some pictures that should help you through the procedure; and be sure to clean the back side of the throttle valve while you are inside the throttle body:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...throttle_body/

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#14 Old 12-06-2007, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Well, if you would be able pull the codes earlier it will make trobleshooting easier:
Sorry, i just found out how to.
I'll try checking the AFM with ohm meter.

Quote:
This is not a very good idea. If your cars use O2 sensors in Norway, chemicals that are not O2 sensor safe can easily destroy the O2 sensor. Next time use only O2 safe throttle body cleaner or O2 safe carb cleaner.
Ouch! Yes the car is basically the same i think. It definitively has a O2 sensor. Hope i didnt ruin it....
And thank you for the link, ill do it right this time.
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#15 Old 12-07-2007, 10:11 AM
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Now the throttle body is cleaned with carb cleaner. The car runs a little bit smoother when warm but no big difference.

I didnt know how to remove the last mutter on the air flow meter, so ill check it again later. The mutter is behind some kind of alu cover which i couldnt get off. But i did check the resistance values while AFM was onboard:

VS - E2 = 296 ohm <-- should be between 200 - 600 ohm.
VC - E2 = 280 ohm <-- should be between 200 - 400 ohm.
THA - E2 = 3210 ohm <-- should be between 4000 - 7000 ohm @ 0 degress celcius, but it was maybe +5 degrees celcius outside.
FC - E1 = Infinity <-- should be infinity.

It seams good till now huh?

Btw, what makes the car want to hesitate when its got warm, and not while its cold? Its perfect while its cold, until the gauge is right in the middle!
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