HELP! '88 Camry cranks, but won't start!

[stricular]

Hey everybody, been awhile since I last posted to ask for help. Some of you may recall that the timing belt on my wagon went south, but fortunately all is well with that car, except it needs a new set of tires, which are going to happen soon...

Anyway, The probems I currently am trying to figure out are on my brother's '88 base 5spd Camry.

It cranks, the cam appears to be turning fine(ie no broken belt), and I can smell fuel faintly after turning the engine over a few times.

He has told me that lately when he goes through a big puddle, the car will stall, and he would have to wait a little while before it would fire back up.

I am just trying to get some ideas about what to look for as possible causes for this no-start condition. I am leaning towards either a spark problem, or a fuel issue. Perhaps the fuel system is leaking or has a hole where water could get in? Maybe the distributor or igniter is shot?

I am going to go do a spark test, as well as put a few gallons of fresh gas with some gas line antifreeze in it and see what I find out, and I will let you know.

If there is any thing else you would suggest checking, please, speak up!
I will report back asap. Thanks!

Edit: The car has about 230 K miles on it, if that makes any diff.

[stricular]

I poured about three gallons of fresh gas in with two bottles of gas line anti-freeze, but no dice.

So I pulled out the #1 spark plug, grounded it and cranked the motor, and it does seem to be getting spark.

If you were cranking the motor awhile, and it was getting gas(but not starting or firing at all), should the plug(s) be wet with fuel if you pull one out like I did? The plug was dry, and had a white crust on it, and the electrode was pretty worn, but the spark looked normal enough. So I am thinking a fuel issue?

If you have any suggestions on what to check next, they would be greatly appreciated.
I am honestly pretty stumped at this point.

[toyomoho]

Has this car sat for a long time?

A few suggestions: Have you tried starting the engine when pressing the gas pedal? Sometimes bad plugs, wires etc can cause hard starting even when there is ignition spark. The IAC valve could need cleaning. Is the fuel pump working, jump the FP and B+ terminals in the Diagnostic box of the engine to bypass the fuel pump relays. The fuel pump will then run when the ignition is on. Or try squirting a little bit of gas into each cylinder, install the plugs and see if engine tries to start. Use a piece of hose as a stethoscope to see if the injectors are clicking when the engine is cranking. Recheck crank/cam timing in case the timing belt jumped a few teeth somehow causing the timing to be off.

[Doctor J]

Make sure that there is not ice in the exhaust system!

[stricular]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

Has this car sat for a long time?

A few suggestions: Have you tried starting the engine when pressing the gas pedal? Sometimes bad plugs, wires etc can cause hard starting even when there is ignition spark. The IAC valve could need cleaning. Is the fuel pump working, jump the FP and B+ terminals in the Diagnostic box of the engine to bypass the fuel pump relays. The fuel pump will then run when the ignition is on. Or try squirting a little bit of gas into each cylinder, install the plugs and see if engine tries to start. Use a piece of hose as a stethoscope to see if the injectors are clicking when the engine is cranking. Recheck crank/cam timing in case the timing belt jumped a few teeth somehow causing the timing to be off.

The car did not sit for any time, just overnight. Another clue is that my brother tells me he had been using more gas than normal lately. What could that mean, if anything, with relation to the no start condition?

I did try to press the gas pedal, and it didn't seem to make any difference.

I will try to jumper the fuel pump bypass and listen to hear if there is fuel going through the system.

Is there any way to check the cam timing without taking the timing cover off? Could I just use a timing light to see if it is firing at the right time while cranking?

And, Doc, thanks for the tip, I will make sure there is no ice built up is the exhaust, but honestly I think it is too warm for ice to be clogging up the pipes, at least not completely.

[Doctor J]

I made write-up on cam timing check procedure(sorry, no pictures came through)
Hope this helps:

Camry 3S-fe cam timing check

The most common reason for timing belt to jump the tooth if the engine is rotated counterclockwise (S. Kornienko), or the belt is too loose. The properly tensioned timing belt must allow to be twisted no more then 90 degrees between the water pump and camshaft sprockets (L. Carley).
The incorrect valve timing must be suspected if:

• The engine has sluggish acceleration, low fuel economy and incorrect idle speed
• The distributor must be rotated too far to obtain 10 degree setting

The crank sprocket (Figure 1, position 2) has 24 teeth; each tooth is equal to 15 degrees of crankshaft revolution. The camshaft sprocket (Figure 2, position1) has 48 teeth, with one tooth equal 7.5 degrees of camshaft revolution.
So in case the belt is one tooth off, the ignition timing will also be 15 degrees off 10 degree BDTC mark.
If there is a suspicion that the cam timing is off (the belt jumped) the test could be made as follows:

• Remove the 4 inch rubber plug from the upper timing cover to expose the cam sprocket;
• Using inspection mirror locate the alignment hole in the cam sprocket
• Remove the spark plugs, except for cylinder number one
• Rotate the engine clockwise by placing socket head on the alternator pulley nut, until the hole in the sprocket aligns with the mark on the bearing cap;
• Now take look on the timing scale near the crank pulley--- if the belt jumped, the timing mark will be off by 15 degrees (it must be on the 0).

As a side note, it makes much more convenient to align the cam sprocket by placing the additional alignment mark on the sprocket rim and timing cover number 3. (This is done on my car). The misalignment by one tooth will throw marks almost 8 mm apart, making such event hard to miss.


In addition the cam timing may be off due to following reasons:
· Broken camshaft –to–cam sprocket drive pin (on both sprockets the timing marks will match, but the cam will be “late” relative to sprocket)
· The rubber in the crank pulley will deteriorate and the outer section containing the timing mark will drift counterclockwise as a result of alternator belt tension (this will lead to the wrong conclusion that the cam is advanced), therefore is good idea to match mark the pulley hub to its outer section (where the timing mark is).
· Damaged crankshaft-to-crankshaft sprocket woodruff key — the cam timing will be retarded and timing marks will not mach. This needs to be checked if belt is tight.

[DressUpYourPet]

Get a can of starting fluid from the auto parts store. Go by the can directions, if the engine now runs fine for a few seconds on the starting fluid, the engine is not getting enough fuel. (some possible causes: clogged fuel filter, weak fuel pump, clogged injectors, one or more injectors not functioning. IAC valve dirty and stuck open, or too much dirt on iac vanes, cold start injector, if fitted, is malfunctioning.)

[Doctor J]

Additional tip: unplug all spark plug wires and inspect the inside the spark tubes using the pen light.Make sure there is no water in there!

[stricular]

Just thought I would follow up on this thread.

You may recall that I checked the car initially for spark, and it was sparking for sure. My brother didn't want to wait, so he had it towed to a shop, where they put in an extra distributor that WE had, to the tune of $130. My brother is an idiot about stuff like this, I told him to just push the car into a legal space and do it himself, duh. Anyway...


Yesterday he called saying his car was doing the same thing again, so I went to see what was wrong.

I had him crank the engine so I could check the spark. The spark plugs were toast, so we replaced those, and tried to start it up.

He was cranking, until it started to catch a little, and then it would blow a bunch of smoke out the intake(which I had opened at the filter end), and the engine would actually spin COUNTERCLOCKWISE for a second after cranking forward!!! So I thought, shit, what next?


I figured that the cat was probably clogged up, so I had him punch it out real good with a screwdriver. A few good cranks with the exhaust pipe off, and it started right up(but it made a good deal of smoke), and now it runs better than ever. He even remarked how it had more power, although this may have been due to the fact that it probably ran like crap while the cat was fouled.

Thanks again for all your help. I will update this if necessary, but I am hopeful it has been resolved. I am definitely going to gut the cat on the wagon, now, too. When in doubt, gut it out.

DISCLAIMER:I plan to install an aftermarket cat in the exhaust piping sometime in the future on any and all cars on which I gut out the factory cat.

[Doctor J]

After my old burned out cat was replaced with the new one, the car passed the smog check but the fuel economy is worse and acceleration is slower.