Engine Repair Decision

[chasman]

For all those who have been in this position:

Gen2 one-owner Camry with 200K miles, a good maintenance history, & good compression test

When all the following parts need to be replaced at the same time:

• Timing & drive belts
• Water pump & hoses
• Front cam & crank seals
• Valve cover gasket
• Head gasket

Does it make sense to pay for only these needed repairs, or is it better to rebuild the engine at this point? About how much more expensive should a rebuild cost?

Thanks

[marc780]

• Timing & drive belts = $35 t-belt and $20 drive belts (add labor cost if approrpiate)
• Water pump & hoses = $100 - 120 pump and $15 hoses
• Front cam & crank seals = $15 - 20
• Valve cover gasket = $10
• Head gasket = about $30 - 50 for all the parts you'd need (asuming you have all the tools).

I think i'd consider a used japan engine instead - cheaper if you are doing all that work you self - about $1000 - 1500 installed, cheaper for just the engine.

[chasman]

I am not a professional mechanic with all the tools necessary for a head job. My experience is limited to maintenance, tune-ups, radiators, alternators, etc. I once replaced a water pump on a Corona wagon and one time I replaced a T-belt on a Pinto, but they were easier to access as they were longitudinal RWD drivetrains. I plan to pay a mechanic to take care of this engine work.

I think i'd consider a used japan engine instead - cheaper if you are doing all that work you self - about $1000 - 1500 installed, cheaper for just the engine.

I have thought about a used Japanese engine. However, one has no real idea of their history: age, mileage, oil change frequency. I guess the best one can hope for are good compression & leak-down tests. Will the engine importers typically also cover the labor cost to replace the engine if it fails during the warranty period?

In another thread, I read that the 6k mile/6-month warranty of such a motor was contingent upon all the seals & gaskets being replaced by the purchaser. Such a requirement would certainly add to the total cost of the a used Japanese engine.

So approximately how much are the following options performed by a professional mechanic?

1. Make only the needed repairs listed in post #1*
2. Have the original engine rebuilt (since we know its history)*
3. Install a used Japanese engine consistent with warranty requirements
4. Install a remanufactured engine by ATK ($???) or Jasper (3 yr / 100k warranty) $2883.00 + labor

* 12k mile/12 month parts and labor warranty

Given that our 87 Camry is already 21 years old, it may not make sense to go to the expense of a remanufactured ATK or Jasper engine.

Thanks

[white90dx]

Don't do the head gasket unless their is a problem. Same with the valve cover gasket.

Whe you do the timing belt, so the water pump, idler pullies, tensioner and crank/cam seals. Everything else can be done another time when needed and you won't be repeating work.

If you need to do the head gasket, think about a JDM motor, otherwise, it is better to keep your stock original known working motor.

-Charlie

[chasman]

The head gasket is unfortunately leaking oil. Excellent point about the idler pullies & tensioner - I didn't include them in my list.

I have thought about a JDM motor. Is it a good deal given the points listed in post #3?

Thanks

[white90dx]

Since I do almost all of the work on my cars myself (other than pressing bearings and welding, pretty much), it is hard for me to gauge the labor side of the equation. I had good luck with my JDM motor, but it was from a '95 car and I was able to see the condition of the complete engine bay before buying. The gen2 Camry 3s-fe is now a very old motor, so I understand your concern.

I wish I could be of more help.

-Charlie

[Doctor J]

The 3sfe head is warping at distributor end that is why it leaks oil from the head gasket
The sylinders cannot be bored oversize and no oversize pistons are available
The valve stems are wearing out and exhaust valve seats are erroding
The cams have no bearing inserts
Therefore, if motor have failed due to oil starvation or overheating, and then rebuild and sold as a long block, it may not last long.
The best idea which is really hard to achieve is to get the running motor out of wrecked 91 Camry with 80 kmi, provided it have had a good service history.

[chasman]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

1. The 3sfe head is warping at distributor end that is why it leaks oil from the head gasket
2. The sylinders cannot be bored oversize and no oversize pistons are available
3. The valve stems are wearing out and exhaust valve seats are erroding
4. The cams have no bearing inserts
5. Therefore, if motor have failed due to oil starvation or overheating, and then rebuild and sold as a long block, it may not last long.
6. The best idea which is really hard to achieve is to get the running motor out of wrecked 91 Camry with 80 kmi, provided it have had a good service history.

Hi Doctor J,
1. Our mechanic told me the head gasket was failing simply due to its age.
3. He did not comment on either the valve stems or the exhaust valve seats.
5. Our engine has never been over-heated. For over 20 years, I have made it a habit to monitor all the gauges (including water temp) every time I drive. Our car has a good maintenance history, & had a good compression test.

Question: Since it may be hard to find a wrecked running 91 Camry with 80k miles, which of the following would be the best "Plan B"?

• Spend as little as possible on this old car & make only the repairs listed in post #1 plus the idler pullies & tensioner
• Have our motor rebuilt
• Install a $2,200. + labor ATK reman
• Install a $2,883. + labor Jasper reman

Thanks

[Skiermang]

What's the labor estimate on your list of repairs?

[chasman]

Sill waiting on estimate.

[66conv6]

Something tells me the head isn't warped and the leak is coming from somewhere else like the distributor or valve cover.

The oil pump gasket and/or O-ring might be a good candidate for replacement "while you're in there".

We have an 87 Dx we puchased one year old from AVIS rent a car and I've used full synthetic oil since. I change the oil (and all fluids) once a year and filter every six months. The car runs and looks like new (165,000 miles).
Sounds like you took good care of the car. Why not use a hot soapy pressure washer from a do it yourself car wash and clean around the head and recheck this head leak. make sure the head is torqued down. In my case the valve cover would leak because the large nuts on top of the valve cover (where the plug wires go in) had backed off over time.

I would use a Toyota timing belt as the quality is much better than say Autozone or Pep Boys. If you've never replaced the water pump I would consider the complete assembly from Toyota and a Toyota thermostat. Personnaly I use Toyota belts for the A/C and alternater too but I'd definitely wouldn't skimp on the timing belt and tensioner as desribed by others.

[Doctor J]

The oil pressure feed hole on this engine is located outside of the head bolt perimeter, less the 1/4 inch from the head edge. Even the normal thermal cycles eventually cause this place to leak.

[chasman]

Options:

1. Replace all belts, front engine seals, water pump & keep toping-off oil.
2. All items in #1 + head gasket, machine head, flush cooling system - estimate = nearly $1,800
3. Have our motor rebuilt - $???.
4. Purchase used 1991 engine from local junk yard, mileage unknown $350 + labor
5. Purchase used JDM engine from ANA Trade Corp (closest importer to us) 6-month warranty, $550 + labor. Does not provide install service. Says it has less than 50k miles & has been compression and leak down tested.
6. Install a $2,200. + labor ATK reman - 3 yr / unlimited mileage warranty
7. Install a $2,883. + labor Jasper reman - 3 yr / 100k mileage warranty

Notes:

1. How long is such a strategy likely to last?
2. This option doesn't seem like a good idea for a 21-yr old engine. How much longer will original short-block last?
3. Labor intensive and probably a 1 yr warranty
4. 120-day warranty that does NOT include the labor to remove & replace a motor that fails during the warranty - Not a good choice.
5. A 3SFE with less than 50k miles??? Has anyone had any experience with ANA Trade Corp?
6. Perhaps the best choice? Are ATK Toyota engines currently remanufactured Mexico or Japan? (I had an ATK installed in our 84 Tercel and it lasted for 185k miles.)
7. Is Jasper worth an additional $683 over ATK?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Skiermang]

I would immediately scratch off the rebuilt motor options. Too expensive.

How much oil is the headgasket leaking? Is it manageable? It might be easiest to limp along with the car, checking it weekly or daily, while saving up for a newer vehicle. The $2,200 you would have spent on a rebuilt engine would go a long ways to getting a newer vehicle. You can also sell your ailing Camry to recoup more loss.

I would go for option number one since you do not want to get intimate with the motor.

[Doctor J]

Forgive me if I am wrong, isn't it a better option to lease a new car?
I had the same plans regarding keeping forever my 79 Supra, which ended up in a unrepairable wreck ( However I got fair compensation for the car and a back strain)