1st & 2nd Generation (1983–1986 & 1987-1991)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1983-1986 & 1987-1991.
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
Hey, I have a 1987 Toyota Camry and when I bought it, I was told that it ran hot and had high NOX emissions. When I pulled the plugs they were whitish, confirming that it was hot/lean. The cooling fans were running; however I noticed when I put the heater on full blast, the temps would be slightly under the halfway mark where they should be. I replaced the plugs, wires, air filter, fuel filter, cap and rotor.After driving like this all the time, the alternator finally gave up!
There was a rattling noise coming from front cover, so I decided to replace everything under there: waterpump, all seals, timing belt, tensioner, and idler. I also replaced the hoses, cap, thermostat, and radiator.
After all that work, the car sometimes is still running hot. The car has simular situation as before........runs a bit hot with fans on, but runs just under halfway with the heater full blast. What is strange is that the hose going to the thermostat is rather cool. The thermostat I put in there did not have the jiggle hole, but it was supposed to really good ( Stant superstat). Do I need to drill a hole in it, or just get an OEM thermostat. The thermostat in it did have the jiggle hole.
I was wondering what the temperature should be coming out of the engine? I am thinking about hooking up a manual guage, however I think the factory gauge is accurate.
On that same note, what temperature should the water be at the thermostat inlet for the cooling fans to kick on?
Now I have not checked the timing, but based on my other Camry it looks about the same position and it does not ping.
Any input will be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by nitrous3sfe; 05-05-2008 at 09:31 AM.
Holy crap, it sounds like a head gasket failure but after all this time you probably would have been able to diagnose that by now...
Could you have an extreme build-up of mineral/corrosion within the block? That would restrict flow enough to cause heat build-up (but only an extreme case of build-up, of course).
__________________ 1990 5spd V6 Camry (Still kicking at 393,000km) 1991 Celica GTS -- Pappa needs a 3SGTE...and AWD for all this friggin' snow
Honda my A$$, you just can't kill a Yota...
I do not think its the head gasket. I compression checked the engine when I got it and it was very high (210 psi IIRC) probably due to carbon build up, but was within a 5 psi of each other.
Another thing I noticed this morning, is that the car seems to warm up extremely fast compared to other cars that I have driven.
I guess I could try using the heavy duty flush if nothing else, but I flushed it several times after putting all new stuff in.
Last edited by nitrous3sfe; 05-05-2008 at 08:38 AM.
rad may be partially plugged, does it run hotter with the air on?
I tried the air and it did not seem to run hotter, but the a/c does not seem to be working either. I doubt the rad is partially plugged. I got one from the junkyard that looked brand new and the inside was super clean. When I was flushing it, water seemed to be flowing quite well.
High combustion temps can cause high N0x also a bad EGR, vacuum leak, converter.
The T-stat should start opening between 176-183, coolant fan turns on around 199F.
Would still look at the radiator and cooling system. The Camry has a very good system, the coolant temp should not vary with the heater usage. The radiator should flow a garden hose input freely.
Does the temp lower with hwy driving, raise with stop and go?
The temp does not vary much with stop and go or highway driving. What was strange is the other day I was doing a lot of stop and go traffic (with the cooling fan on) and the temp was fine. But typically, I have to turn on the heater for temps to go down.
I guess I need to check the EGR, I could gut the cat. I do not think its a vacuum leak; the car pulled solid steady vacuum when I bought it originally, but I guess I can check it again.
I also probably need to hook up an air/fuel gauge. Highly unlikely, but a previous owner could have tried the AFM trick on the extreme lean side. The car does get excellent MPG.
Last edited by nitrous3sfe; 05-05-2008 at 12:35 PM.
If the engine were running so hot as to overpower the cooling system I would expect the coolant would overflow the reservoir and that you would need to add coolant back regularly. The next likely thing is that the cooling system isn't capable of removing enough heat from the engine. Your replacement radiator (if clean) took care of half and TBay Toyotaboy's point is well taken (but like he said, it would take a lot of build up).
I like your concern about the vent hole in the thermostat. While rare, you might have an air pocket. Sometimes you can put the car on a steep incline (front bumper high) to get the air pocket to burp. Open the radiator cap and, when the car gets to operating temp, watch the coolant flow. It should. It wouldn't be hard to remove the t-stat altogether and see if that affected your temps. Maybe you mistakenly got the wrong temperature range...
I also didn't see any mention of the fans operating. I expect that Toyomoho's last question was a reference to this.
Let us know what your separate temp gauge shows. Remember, there are two temperature sensors. One at the radiator for the fans and one on the engine for the temp gauge. (And I think a third one, on the engine also, for the ECM.)
Kep
__________________
Often, it's the loose screw between the steering wheel and the driver's seat that needs to be fixed first!
Well, its not running so hot that it is puking out coolant, just hotter than normal. Like I said before, the coolant hose going to the engine is cool.
I am suprised there is no burp hole like in other vehicles. I guess air pockets are rare with these engines if Toyota did not have a means to bleed the system. I will try to find the box of the thermostat; sometimes even if something is labled one thing, but in reality it might be another! I spend too much time at the parts counter with a guy at Advance saying that a tranny filter did not fit! (and the other one in stock was wrong too!)
The fan (singular since I do not run the a/c) works, it has little effect on coolant temperature when the heater is on full blast. I only have one hooked up right now, as they were both running all the time. I need to check the sensor.
I know where the temp sensor for the fan is...and I know of a sensor right before the coolant hose going into the engine. Where is the other sensor?
I'm not sure how to describe it. I plagiarized 898LE's picture (I think?) that shows it well:
You have the ECT (engine coolant temp) and the water temp sender. I believe that the ECT is for the computer and the sender is for the gauge. But, it could be the other way around...
__________________
Often, it's the loose screw between the steering wheel and the driver's seat that needs to be fixed first!
Thanks for the pic! Now I know which one I can hook up my mechanical gauge up to without upseting the ECU! Actually, there is a plug on the other side...I guess I could use an adapter and run both gauges to see how they differ.
What temperature would be considered overheating?
Also, I noticed when the temp gauge goes beyond halfway, the car starts bucking. I just turn on the heater and it stops.....
The bucking sounds suspiciously like the a temperature sensor not working. What ever it is hooked up to thinks the car is still cold when it is actually hot. Could be something going to the ECU or one of the temp activated vacuum sensors (or a damaged vacuum line that only has a vacuum when the engine warms up).
By the way, your initial post said "a bit hot". Could you elaborate? Why do you say it is running hot? Our "normal" temp gauge is typically above the half way point on the gauge. It's not a lot over but it is noticeable. Your direct temp measurement will be very helpful. It should be the temp that the thermostat is set for.
Kep
Kep
__________________
Often, it's the loose screw between the steering wheel and the driver's seat that needs to be fixed first!
Well I am basing that it is running hot based on how the plugs looked. I have driven several Camries and most of them ran slightly below halfway mark if you looked at the gauge straight on. My current Camry runs slightly below half with the heater one and is definately over the halfway mark without, I guess I can take a picture and post.
I want to switch out a temp sender from one Camry that I know is good to another identical one which has a gauge that don't read, but I am not sure what to seal the threads with. Can I use teflon tape or pipe dope, or do I just screw it in tight without anything.
Also thanks Kep for the picture and everyone else who contributes to making this site a good resource.
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Overheating Still?! I Changed Everything!
1990 5spd V6 Camry (Still kicking at 393,000km) 1991 Celica GTS -- Pappa needs a 3SGTE...and AWD for all this friggin' snow
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