Idleing problems and running crappy

[87 Wagon]

I have an 87 Camry Wagon LE with the 4cyl in it.
When I first got it I did an oil change and checked all the fluids and as time and money allowed I was going to change all the fluids to just give myself piece of mind.
Well one night the coil went out on my way home from work so the next day I bought a coil and some new spark plugs. Changed those and has been running fine.
Well the guy I bought the car from said I sould use 89 or higher because it runs rough on any thing lower.
I did for the first couple of tanks but than I said lets see what he meant.
The first tank went fine, and the second was ok too but could here the engine sounded different like a pinging type sound. So I was going to go back to 89 on the next tank fill up.
Well before that could happen the car did a 180 and just starting running terible. ie stalling, hard to start when cold, after it starts very rough loping idle than stalls, check engine light comes on and off.
So went back to 93 for a tank to see if I could get back to where it was but to noones surprise it still ran awful.
So I bought a new rotor, cap and wires set and changed those a couple of days ago.
Got better but when its cold it still stalls and idles real rough.
Before I bought the cap and rotor w/ plugs set i thought it was the timing but someone told me the timing cant just jump like that from running good to running crappy so i havent checked that yet.

anyone with ideas or help would be great to hear from you
I like my wagon but if it cant be fixed rather inexpensively I have to let it go, I only work part time so money is tight
Thanks in advance
Bernie

[Doctor J]

I would start with vacuum leak check followed with power balance (or leak down, or compression test)
I remember you changed the coil inside the distributor; make sure there are no carbon traces of arching on it below 4 tooth reluctor. You can read one of my posts how to check the timing belt; I do not think it jumped a tooth though.

[Kep]

Stuff that you can do reasonably easily would also include cleaning the EGR system, the throttle body and the IAC valve. You can do a thorough clean job on the IAC (Idle Air Control) valve and the throttle body if you remove the throttle body to get to the IAC. It is easier to get to the EGR valve if the throttle body is off. So if you do all three at once, you tend to save a little time on each. Make sure that the vertical tube that the EGR valve is connected to is reasonably clear and that the vacuum hose going from the bottom of the EGR to the modulator is clean.

Kep

[87 Wagon]

Thanks for the responses guys
But before I start taking stuff apart and spending money let me give you one more bit of information on the issue
After its warmed up it runs fine its the warm up process that is bad. It never used to do this but has in the past couple of weeks.
Takes two cranks to get it to start, used to start on first crank
Stumbles and stalls at first than as the temp starts to get warm it settles on an idle and than is good to go
I used to be able to start it throw it in drive or reverse and go. If i do that now it just stalls
Thanks again
Bernie

[Doctor J]

Have you tried to pull any codes yet ( even if MIL light is off, the "soft" codes could be stored in the ECU memory]
The similar problem on 87 toyota pick-up happened after the valves were adjusted too tight, they leaked as engine was cold and causing it to bog down under load; as engine warmed up, the valve clearances increased, allowing valves to close properly.
I would rather to check the air fuel mixture [and check the coolant thermo sensor first}

[Mike Gerber]

"Takes two cranks to get it to start, used to start on first crank
Stumbles and stalls at first than as the temp starts to get warm it settles on an idle and than is good to go"

In addition to what Doctor J has sugeested, I would also check the cold start time switch. They go often on these older Camrys and can cause the symptoms you describe, especially if it runs fine once it warms up. You will need a digital volt/ohmeter and the specs from any manual to do this. As you are standing in front of the engine you will see a coolant passage coming out of the right side of the cylinder head. There will be several sensors screwed in to that passage with different colored plastic connectors on them. The one under the brown connector is the cold start time switch and the one under the green connector is the coolant temperature sensor which Toyota refers to as an ECT sensor in their manuals. Remove the connector and check them both with your DVM with the engine cold. The cold start time switch must be in spec - close to spec is not good enough.

Mike

[Doctor J]

Minor correction to above post:
Mike, if cold start injector timer switch is faulty, it will take 10 seconds to crank the engine until it starts, but once started it will run good, provided everything else is working.

[87 Wagon]

how can I pull the codes?
Thanks
Bernie

[Doctor J]

Using a jumper wire, connect terminals TE1 and E1 of the Data Link Connector 1 (DLC1).
Turn the ignition switch ON, but do not start the engine. Read the diagnostic code by the counting the number of flashes of the malfunction indicator lamp.
Codes will flash in numerical order. If no faults are stored, the lamp flashes continuously every 1/2 second. This is sometimes called the Normal or System Clear signal.
After the diagnosis check, turn the ignition OFF and remove the jumper wire.
Compare the codes found to the applicable diagnostic code chart. If necessary, refer to the individual component tests in this section. If the component tests are OK, test the wire harness and connectors for shorts, opens and poor connections.

[87 Wagon]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

Using a jumper wire, connect terminals TE1 and E1 of the Data Link Connector 1 (DLC1).
Turn the ignition switch ON, but do not start the engine. Read the diagnostic code by the counting the number of flashes of the malfunction indicator lamp.
Codes will flash in numerical order. If no faults are stored, the lamp flashes continuously every 1/2 second. This is sometimes called the Normal or System Clear signal.
After the diagnosis check, turn the ignition OFF and remove the jumper wire.
Compare the codes found to the applicable diagnostic code chart. If necessary, refer to the individual component tests in this section. If the component tests are OK, test the wire harness and connectors for shorts, opens and poor connections.

Doctor J
Thanks for all the help so far

Ok I pulled the code by doing what you said
I got the 14 code
Which as you prob know is the
Igniion Signal -- No signal from the igniter 4-5 times in succession
Trouble areas -- 1. Igniter circut (+b, IGT, IGF)
2. Igniter
3. ECU
When I replaced my coil I wasnt sure if it was the coil or not so I checked ona price for the igniter also while i was there and it was like $300.00 plus for one.
before I spend that kind of money on a car I bought for $800 I just need to make sure thats the problem for sure
So what would be my next step??
Thanks again and your very kind for helping
Thanks
Bernie

[TBayToyotaBoy]

If you're reasonably sure that you want to replace the igniter, don't spend $300 for a new one without being DAMN sure it's faulty. Maybe visit one of your local u-pull-it scrap yards and pick up a couple of used igniters. I can't imagine they would be more than $5 or $10 each...

[87 Wagon]

Originally Posted by TBayToyotaBoy

If you're reasonably sure that you want to replace the igniter, don't spend $300 for a new one without being DAMN sure it's faulty. Maybe visit one of your local u-pull-it scrap yards and pick up a couple of used igniters. I can't imagine they would be more than $5 or $10 each...

Yeah just got back from the pull a part. Was at a different one on Sat and no old toyotas at all under 1990
So today I went to the pull a part and the igniters are $16.00 a piece but today they were having a sale if you buy one you get 3 free!!

Ill know for sure if its fixed the problem when I goto work, because its really bad when its sits for a while and is a cold start. I put it in at the junk yard and on the way home the car ran great no hesitations or stalling like on the way to the junk yard so hopefully its fixed
Thanks for everyones help and I will report back tomorrow to let you all know if its fixed
Thanks again for everyones help
Bernie

[87 Wagon]

I just want to thank everyone for thier help. That problem is fixed it starts right up and runs fine. It was the igniter.
I have another issue with the car but will start a new topic on that one since it has to do with the tranny.
Again thank you
Bernie