'91 Camry FAILED Ontario emissions test

[ratramry]

Hi all,

I have a well maintained, '91 Camry LE V6 which I've owned for almost 3 years.

It was previously owned by an old lady who took excellent care of the car, always kept up with scheduled maintenance and barely drove it - the car only had about 65,000km on it when i bought it, now has 112,000.

Took it in for an E test the other day and the bloody thing failed!

ASM2525 Test
HCppm: 138 Fail (limit 60)
CO%: 0.39 Fail (limit .33)
NOppm: 1018 Fail (limit 675)
All other aspects passed.

First mistake was taking it to a Toyota dealership, i know, but they're telling me it's the CAT, which is prolly BS cuz i put a new converter in about 2 years ago, but first they want to do diagnostics for $100 to make sure.

My O2 sensor died back in January and that was replaced as well as the air filter.

I'm about 700km way from needing an oil change - should i get it changed first before retest?

My dad is actually an ex-Toyota tech with 25+ years of experience and was/is a certified drive clean specialist until he lost his job earlier this year.

He told me i should've made sure the car was hot when they tested it - i dropped it off for the day before i went to work, so i have no clue.

His next piece of advice was to fill up with E85 and add some of that "Guaranteed to Pass" stuff, run it through, fill up with 91 octane and go have it retested and make sure it's hot.

Just wondering if anyone has some additional tricks, advice as to what the problem could be or can confirm what my dad is saying to get this thing to pass. Problem is my dad is a cantankerous SOB who always hated working on cars and can't be bothered to help me out, just throws my some random advice hoping it will work.

I don't have a lot of money for car repairs, especially for an old car like this and since i still need to pay for Christmas gifts as well i ran into some unexpected bills earlier this year for my dog, i really don't have extra money for this government BS scam.

[Doctor J]

The failure of this nature is caused by:
OPEN LOOP operation [missing or faulty thermostat] bad replacement O2 sensor
If engine was running in closed loop VF fluctuating at 2500 rpm 8 times per 10 seconds,
the replacement cat is of poor quality [I saw two like this at 84 Tercel and 85 Chevy Caprice
Was the 15 mph or two speed idle test performed?
Any trouble codes are stored in the ECU memory?

[ratramry]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

The failure of this nature is caused by:
OPEN LOOP operation [missing or faulty thermostat] bad replacement O2 sensor
If engine was running in closed loop VF fluctuating at 2500 rpm 8 times per 10 seconds,
the replacement cat is of poor quality [I saw two like this at 84 Tercel and 85 Chevy Caprice
Was the 15 mph or two speed idle test performed?
Any trouble codes are stored in the ECU memory?

curb idle test was performed and it passed:
HCppm: 106 (200 limit)
CO%: 0.14 (1.00 limit)

the O2 sensor is fine, we ran diagnostics while my dad was still working for Toyota and the original one it was flatlining, check engine light was also on. As soon as we swapped out the O2 sensor, check engine light was off and we were getting proper readings again, not to mention restored performance, etc...

Trouble is, it took my dad 3 months to finally help me change to O2 sensor, so could driving around with a dead one have toasted my converter?

any way to tell without getting too complicated? i don't have any sulfur smell coming out of the exhaust or into the cab.

Not sure about the ECU...

[Doctor J]

On idle the HC are still higher then average for low mileage car.
The car was barely driven, so I could speculate that PCV system can be contaminated; I do not know what maintenance was done to ignition system, spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor.The properly working cat is hotter then exhaust manifold and about 300 deg.C
Also check the FPU system [solenoid that controls vacuum to fuel pressure regulator];it should be open under most operating conditions, unless engine is very hot-- check for vacuum at fuel pressure regulator at idle.
I am not remeber from the top of my head if Canadian engine has post -converter O2 sensor; it must produce steady voltage, if it is pulsing, then it means the cat is bad.
Also if pre-cat O2 sensor is heated, check its heater.

[ratramry]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

On idle the HC are still higher then average for low mileage car.
The car was barely driven, so I could speculate that PCV system can be contaminated; I do not know what maintenance was done to ignition system, spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor.The properly working cat is hotter then exhaust manifold and about 300 deg.C
Also check the FPU system [solenoid that controls vacuum to fuel pressure regulator];it should be open under most operating conditions, unless engine is very hot-- check for vacuum at fuel pressure regulator at idle.
I am not remeber from the top of my head if Canadian engine has post -converter O2 sensor; it must produce steady voltage, if it is pulsing, then it means the cat is bad.
Also if pre-cat O2 sensor is heated, check its heater.

thanks, will look into this, the thing is when i first got the car it passed emissions just fine, so i don't think the PCV is contaminated as i drive it 20 minutes highway each way to work. And i've taken it on several long trips, so the car seeing a lot of action since i've owned it and being driven mostly around 100 - 130km/hr.

as far as ignition, spark plugs, cap and rotor, all stock and fine a last check earlier this year.

i am running winter tires, would take make a difference at all?

this model has only one O2 sensor - pre converter.

[TBayToyotaBoy]

Hey, welcome to TN. Firstly, the type of tire you run won't affect the DriveClean testing. Doctor J brought up an interesting point about the O2 sensor heater. You'llremember from swapping the sensor that it is a 4-wire, not a 2-wire. On our V6s the O2 sensor runs its own heater, to allow for more accurate readings. If it's failed on yours, the sensor will not work properly-- ESPECIALLY if the asses tested your car before it was up to NOT (normal temp). Book an appointment with one of those places that ONLY does smog testing (I haven't lived in Toronto for five years but there's one on Eglinton in Scarborough--assuming you live close to that) and drive the car off the highway straight to their door. They don't do repairs, so there's no vested interest in failing you. If the engine temp is nice and hot then it should pass okay.

-Tim

[91_ToYoTa_CaMrY]

i had the same problem and they said it was the cat
and i think i ended up @ the same place as TBay mentioned andddd got a sticker for 2 years so i dont have to do an e test for another 2 years

[JMSports]

Why would you take it to a Toyota dealership. Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard.

I get my inspections done by a friend who has a shop around the corner, so i basically have no chance of failing.

[ratramry]

Originally Posted by JMSports

Why would you take it to a Toyota dealership. Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard.

I get my inspections done by a friend who has a shop around the corner, so i basically have no chance of failing.

thanks tips!

seeing as it had passed before and nothing appeared to be problematic, i thought i had nothing to worry about.

there is a shop in town that mostly does oil changes and emissions test, i guess i'll try there next...

[ratramry]

Originally Posted by 91_ToYoTa_CaMrY

i had the same problem and they said it was the cat
and i think i ended up @ the same place as TBay mentioned andddd got a sticker for 2 years so i dont have to do an e test for another 2 years

actually you prolly won't need another one ever for that car, anything over 18 years is considered classic and no longer requires emissions testing, if i'm not mistaken.

that's why i just want to get a pass on this last one.