Maybe a dumb question, but... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

rojo412 · 03-19-2009, 12:11 AM

I was (and still am on) the hunt for a prettier and faster and funner Gen 2 to replace my 91 wagon (which I love, but is slow and rusty). And a few months ago, I came across a 91 Camry with a V and a 5 speed, on craigslist. I never made it to check it out and it sold. Then another V6 pops up recently (don't have details of auto or stick) and I'm all jazzed and I start looking up some info on it...

It appears, according to Edmunds, that the V6 91 LE only came auto. Now here's the stupid question:
Was that a freak car or would someone have changed to a 5 speed from the auto?
And if they did, is that something that is overly difficult to do?

I would imagine that you'd have to change quite a bit to have this work. The only cars I find with a V6 2VZFE are these and Lexus ES250s, auto as far as I see. But then again, I am not too deep in this. Just need a small bit of light shone on this.

(I did try to search this, but "V6" and "LE" are too short for the search function)

atobe · 03-19-2009, 12:41 AM

DO IT !!!!!!! you can use the E153 or some other E series trans from another V6 camry.... then shifter cables would have to come out of a gen2 sedan may be ?? not sure if it'll fit directly but it should be close enough to work.. not sure about the pedals issue but that would have to come out of a sedan too...

TBayToyotaBoy · 03-19-2009, 01:36 AM

You would NEVER regret buying or building a 5-speed 2VZ. I love mine so much I refuse to scrap it even though the rust has almost killed it (and it's at 400,000km).

Best, most reliable, and (for a sedan) the funnest car I've owned yet. Swapping-in a 5-speed will require some custom work, you have to cut-out the hole in the firewall for the clutch master cylinder. The pedals/master/slave cylinders, and shifter will work from a 4-cylinder manual, but I believe the linkages are different on the V6...

Whatever, these are trivial details. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. The 2VZ is a wet fish with an auto slushbox holding it back, but with a 5-speed it surprises the shite out of punks in their pimped-out Civics.

white90dx · 03-19-2009, 02:51 AM

The V6 was available in the DX trim with a manual trans. The ES250 was also (rarely!) available with a 5-speed.

Unless you are pretty mechanically inclinded, i would stay away from trying to swap things. You will have to deal with lots of small details that are a pain to get right. Just spend the time and find a good V6 5-speed... (I spent a year waiting for a good, clean Alltrac to come up for sale...)

-Charlie

rojo412 · 03-19-2009, 07:42 AM

Well hey, as long as they exist, that's good news to me.

Basically, here's the plan: I want to have a fast Gen 2 as my project car. If it's driveable during upgrades (aka less down time in the garage), I'm happy with that. I understand why people upgrade in phases.

The 4 cyl vs 6 cyl debate of what to buy is being won by the 6 for the fact that it has 4 wheel disc and heavier springs in the front. Having alloy wheels, leather, etc doesn't hurt either, but it's hard to find (in Cleveland at least). If I had to either do a rear disc conversion on a 4 that has a 5 speed or a 5 speed conversion on a 6... well, I am guessing that the 5 speed convert would be the harder of the two. But I am best friends with a mechanic who has a shop and am very good with mechanical stuff,so I don't fear any of this. But obviously, getting what I want with less effort would be just fine by me.

The car will eventually get the 3S-GTE swap, but I wouldn't mind having a relatively fast car to start. By that, I mean faster than my 4 cyl wagon with 215k on the motor. The V6 with a 5 speed would fit that bill nicely.

TBayToyotaBoy · 03-19-2009, 09:17 AM

I'm worried that your plans may cause you extra pain in the long run...if you take a 2VZ with a standard and swap-in a 3SGTE, the tranny has to go as well; whereas a 3SFE standard (I believe) would mate with the turbo'd block.

This is saying nothing of the cut'n'weld you'll have to do for engine mounts... the 4-cyl set-up is different than the V6, and while others can advise you on the work needed on a 3SFE set-up, changing the V6 to a 3SGTE is relatively new territory--you'd be on your own, likely learning the hard way.

And we're not talking a day or two of hassle--you could lose a month working out the small details.

You can get a GT-Four these days for around $6,000 in decent shape...

Wangan · 03-19-2009, 10:01 AM

the standard/5-speed tranny from the 2VZ will bolt up to the 3SGTE. That's the original tranny I had on my set up. However the whole 2VZ to 3sgte conversion.... I'm sure you'll need a 3SFE crossmember to make that work and a few other pieces from a 4 cyl camry. If you want a fun setup for now with the potential for more in the future I'd recommend geting a 4cyl 5 speed and doing a progressive nitrous setup. Start witha 60 shot that progresses out to 100 by just before redline. I believe the internals of a 3SFE will hold a 60 shot that starts/activates aroud 3500rpm. It'll pull harder than a turbo and it'l be cheaper in the long run because if you ain't spraying you still have 3sfe gas mileage! Your choice.

rojo412 · 03-19-2009, 10:01 AM

Hmmm... food for thought. Maybe I should get the V6 as a daily and be on the prowl for an All Trac or a nice 4 for the swaperoo. I mean, if a 6 with a 5 speed will get me a super relaible daily that has a bit of the old gittyup, that's fine for me now. I have the resources and will to make a swap happen, but would like to get things right the first time.

I like the GT-Four (AllTrac?) to a certain extent, but I am a sleeper fan and in Cleveland, there are too many people with the cars EXPECTED to be tweaked and not enough sleepers. Plus, I barely have enough cash to start this project as of right now, so flat out buying a $6000 car is far out of the question.

If anyone happens to see anything within 200 miles of Cleveland that looks nice, feel free to let me know!

Wangan · 03-19-2009, 10:11 AM

I dunno what you'll be doing as far as job wise in the future. But modified Gen 2's are not for the faint of heart and wallet. So do what you gotta do now to be prepared. The small stuff will nickel and dime you to death.

rojo412 · 03-19-2009, 12:11 PM

I had plans to work on that price issue as things came up. It's easier to spread that thin. Plus, I have access to a lot of these in yards locally for parts. The engine... that's another story.

On a side note, I found an AllTrac for sale close enough to me to consider. It's a 5 speed and has little rust, though the price is high. Just a quick off topic question (set) to the pros:
Suspension upgrading on them, is it anything compatible with Celica AllTrac or what? (short answer is fine)
4 wheel disc on the All Trac? I forgot.

Word

white90dx · 03-19-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rojo412

I had plans to work on that price issue as things came up. It's easier to spread that thin. Plus, I have access to a lot of these in yards locally for parts. The engine... that's another story.

On a side note, I found an AllTrac for sale close enough to me to consider. It's a 5 speed and has little rust, though the price is high. Just a quick off topic question (set) to the pros:
Suspension upgrading on them, is it anything compatible with Celica AllTrac or what? (short answer is fine)
4 wheel disc on the All Trac? I forgot.

Word

Camry Alltrac 5-speed has the same transmission, rear end and axles as an '87 Celica Alltrac (yes, really). It is a great candidate for a 3s-gte swap. No need to change transmissions or motor mounts. Also, it starts with 4-wheel disk brakes. The only problem is the extra ~400lbs it carries around...

Celica ST185 (90-93 Alltrac) suspension works pretty well on a Camry Alltrac. Search for my thread about installing Tein Coilovers on my Alltrac.

-Charlie

PS. The Alltrac Camry is AWESOME in the snow. Great donuts.

Wangan · 03-20-2009, 01:24 AM

OP if you found a decent all-trac congrats hop on it asap. I think my next gen2 will have to be an all-trac because I want something nasty out the hole.

rojo412 · 03-20-2009, 07:49 AM

I loved my alltrac. But I spent $200 to get it... this one is $2000.

In the process of looking for that, I spotted a cherry ES250 that fits my needs. I just need to get someone to drive me 90 miles to get it. It's a 5 speed and looks HOT. And is a LOT less than the AllTrac.

Wangan · 03-20-2009, 11:33 AM

I think If I got an ES 250 5spd in high school, I would've never wanted another car at all.lol

rojo412 · 03-22-2009, 01:43 AM

Okay, I am getting the ES250, but I just hope that I can ask 1 more stupid, loaded-ass question before someone decides to shut this thread down (because though similar to a V6 Camry, it's not...? Don't hurt me!):

Suspension options? In a quick summary, just need to know who makes more performance springs/coilovers/whatever for this car? What other options do I have to fit in this car, maybe somthing with a slight mod? Most of the answers I found pertained to 4 cyl Camrys and didn't see much in V6.

Or, do any V6 owners have opinions on how decent the stock stuff is? I know the mating of a 5 speed to the V6 makes for more fun and speed, but how does it handle a bigger wheel and/or fun driving?