'86 Camry only starts with diagnostic wire - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


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1st & 2nd Generation (1983–1986 & 1987-1991) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1983-1986 & 1987-1991. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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Old 09-19-2009, 12:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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'86 Camry only starts with diagnostic wire

Sorry for the long title. I think my problem is different than the average “my Camry won’t start” thread. Also, I’m not a certified female mechanic (nor claim to be), but I have done a lot of repairs through the years on the cars I’ve owned. I am a survivalist. This all happened while working in San Diego.

What I have
: 1986 Camry sedan 2.0L with 139,856 original miles. (bought it from 94 year old neighbor 8 years ago when it had only 28k miles). It came with the typical flimsy manual as well as the “BGB”.

Current problem:
it won’t start unless I play with fuses and jump start car with diagnostic wire.

What ?? And steps taken
:
8/30/09 - after work, friend and co-worker and I decide to drive to casino. Car starts up fine, but seems a little rough. Went to get gas, starts back up head to freeway. Travel on a slight hill not even passed first exit, car jolts. From experience I know to get over. Check engine light is not on when that happened and now neither is car. I check the battery and noticed the fluid is gone, fill battery with purified water, try again (nothing) Car is cranking, but not turning over. CHP comes and pushes car off fwy. Ask for jump, try again (nothing). Pushed to a park and ride lot where we remain. Reading the book, we check the fuses (fine), coil, (fine), spark (yes) etc. Change battery terminal out re-do wiring, check hoses, try again (it tries, but nothing). Tow driver friend of friends comes tries to jump, (almost, but nothing), suggest fuel pump or maybe timing issue. I suggest a possible short. Get towed back to work and slept in employee lot.
8/31/09- go to work seek out racetrack mechanic. Another semi-mechanic comes, I tried to do diagnosis but unable to get anything. Realize that check engine light isn’t coming on, check wiring again (nothing). He sprays carb cleaner in throttle (starts for split second and dies), he suggest change fuel filter and says fuel pump. I say think it’s a short. Unable to start I wait for friend with own car repair business to come and help. Check hoses, reach for tape and begun taping. Twelve hours later he shows up and without tools -ugghh!! By this time I discovered that I have blown efi 15 amp fuses and the 15 amp fuse below it too. I locate replacement fuses, but this kit is missing 7.5’s. I replace fuses, discovered I had original battery terminal, so change it again, redo wiring, check hoses for leaks and cracks, notice in start position check engine light is now back on, reset codes, perform diagnosis, it reads normal. Attempt to start (almost, nothing). Go back and notice efi 15amp fuse has blown again. Friend w/out tools shows, I tell him think it’s a short and to check the timing. After several cranks retarded timing complete. Now out of 15amps he replaces it with a 10amp. Check light on, reset, code normal (starts, dies). Switch fuses around, check air filter and compartment, try again (starts, with white smoke, on for a minute, then dies). Check fuses again, none blown, move fuses around, have him adjust timing a little more, (it starts, run it for 10 mins then drive 91 miles back home).
9/1/09- take bus to autozone buy relay switch, fusible links, 7.5’s , extra fuses and a fuel filter. Buy 6pack open bottle of wine...Changed fuel filter, replace fuses(nothing). Notice check eng light gone again too. Fuses weren’t blown, replaced them anyway. Checked hoses, use test light, can’t find short, but its not lighting up on all relay spots. Read thread on cleaning throttle. Went to kragen and bought some air sensor cleaner and followed directions. (it starts) added some lucas fuel injection cleaner and let it run for about 45 mins revving it up periodically. Fixed? Ha! Turned it off. Went to restart (nothing). Go back to fuses, another blown fuse, and notice h20 is now on top of battery. Not a good sign. Change fuses, get check light, reset, code normal, this time check fuel pump (I hear it running), remove wire (nothing). Spray quick burst of starter fluid (it starts and stays on) I turn it off, restart (nothing) Neighbor who helped change filter suggest bad pump, I have him here it running. Only problem is, you can not hear it running in start position, but you can with the wire in the designated diagnosis spots. He suggest I leave the wire in than start it, I say the book says no, reluctantly do it anyway and viola! Car starts.
9/04/09- drive to work. Get off work drive over to camp site. Next morning (nothing). I’m now stuck again. After going through everything again, decided “screw it!” , check engine light on, placed wire in terminals Fp and B+ for fuel pump operation. With out car on (for some reason) singed by finger and thumb, ouch!! Used a different wire, heard pump humming, cranked it and viola!! It started and I was able to get home.

Since then, I’ve either left the engine on, with mom in car, run and do errands, take my chances that it might not start, and when it doesn’t, I play with fuses, get the check engine light to come on (good sign), place the wire I now keep on dash board inside the fuel pump diagnosis spots and start it up.

I already know this process can not be good and will eventually bite me in the… however, it is working for now. What am I missing, what should I check? Aside from getting an old crank and having the “keystone cops” do my intro please help get this car back to normal. Thank you-pop
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome to TN!

Not having a go at you, but you should try to keep your posts concise. There's quite a lot of fluff in your post that makes it a bit confusing.

Could you make another post with a list of the things you've checked/replaced? Which terminals are you jumping in the diagnostic connector?
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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No offense taken...

As far as as the "fluff" goes, its all the steps taken that got me to this point. Did it to eliminate any "did you try this?" questions.

Checked: battery, wiring, all hoses for cracks/leaks, cleaned air sensor and re-checked connection, cleaned throttle via "how to clean throttle" thread, checked battery electrolytes ,battery voltage, alternator connection and continuity, (btw, continuity checked using multimeter), replaced, checked fusible links non blown, but replaced fusible links anyway. Checked all fuses, and replaced when either blown or not. Used circuit light and checked for shorts. Removed glove box to check circuit opening relay operation, but was unable to get a reading and unable to remove it from the bracket. Checked distributor and plugs, ignition coil, spark plugs (1&2 were wet. cleaned plugs and replaced). Checked and adjusted timing, retarded by ear and with timing light). Checked fuel to injector, fuel pressure in fuel filter hose...checked my sanity.

Replaced: fuel filter (which wasn’t clogged), battery terminals, negative battery cable, rewired + wire that appeared bad. Replaced relay. Changed EFI 15A, IGN 7.5 , ECU -B 15A and GUAGE 7.5A

Diagnostics? : Jumped E1/T to check engine light codes. Jumped Fp/+B to check fuel pump operation (and to get it started).

Did not check air flow meter,but did clean it with sensor spray (while disconnected). mmm wondering if the circuit opening relay doesn't give a reading when checking it directly, but jumping wires Fp/+B in check connector does something, if that's the problem.

Also, discovered a few days ago, that even if I switched the fuses around, I had to remove the relay and replace it with another to get it started.
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Old 09-21-2009, 01:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
3s-gte in a Camry?!?
 
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First, I have very little info on the gen1 Camry... I'm going mostly on assuming it is very similar to the wiring in a gen2 Camry...

I very much believe this is a Circuit Opening Relay problem. The EFI fuse powers the circuit opening relay which then turns on the fuel pump. If it has an internal short or other proplem, this would cause most/all of the symptoms you are describing.

It also sounds like there is an electrical gremlin elswhere in the car - maybe some rats/mice chewing happened in the cars history? (sitting cars have a bad tendancy to do that...)

Definitely get a replacement COR (junkyard should be fine - normally they are very reliable parts) and go from there.

-Charlie
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Old 09-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Few times this poblem was caused by:
- bad or unsecured connector on air flow meter;
- Missing ground on the fuel pump switch on from the air flow meter
-bad connectors on circuit opening [fuel pump] relay
86 wiring is very similar to 87 model.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
bad or unsecured connector on air flow meter;
Will go double check this.


Quote:
Missing ground on the fuel pump switch on from the air flow meter
What color wire should I look for or starting point to follow?

Quote:
bad connectors on circuit opening [fuel pump] relay
....mmmm when using the wire in check connector on terminals Fp/B+ , if I hear the fuel then, but can not get a reading on the relay (so far), aren't those terminals sending a circuit to the COR when the terminals are jumped?

does anyone know the part # for the circuit opening relay??
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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one more thing...the BGB says I should hear a noise coming from the EFI relay in the start position. I hear nothing. Even after replacing the switches. Last night I removed the box to check connections. Using the multimeter I was able to get a reading on everything but the main relay.
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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On airflow meter connector locate white wire with black tracer [terminal E1] it should be at the end of the connector; check if there is the continuity between it and a ground.
The wire from said terminal is connected to to terminal #6 of COR [not sure about the # look for the color, then it goes to the fuse and relay box and branches out to the "ground terminal of EFI main relay; from this point it goes to the ground point near driver side headlight.
There is suppose to be continuity between the #3 terminal cavity of the EFI relay and the ground.
With B+ and Fp terminal shorted the COR relay is bypassed
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Sorry it took so long to give an update. After reading Doctor J's post, I began pricing parts, bought another relay switch for backup and started slow troubleshooting in search of the short. With the weather hitting over 100, I decided to put it on hold a few days. The neighbor across the street with the adult school wanted to take a look. It started to drive it there, but came back to me unable to start again. They insisted it was the ignition coil and/or distributor and they wanted to take it to a friends shop. ( I didn't let them). A couple days later, I tried to start it, and it was back to the drawing board. This time using the bypass wouldn't work either. I noticed they rewired some things and added a new relay. Standing in front of car i noticed that the timing was off. A buddy of mine who was visiting came out to help. That's when we discovered the parts they put back were not secured either. While he removed distributor cap, checked the coil, cleaned parts and replaced, turned time belt to zero etc. I began checking for short again piece by piece, seated air sensor, seated and secured check connector which seemed loose. After everything was connected, started it again and still nothing. Tried to retard the timing and still nothing, and didn't get it with the bypass trick. Before screaming, re-read Doctor J's response regarding where the wire connects to. That's when I discovered, the plug connected to the left headlight was now disconnected. Told friend it does matter, because DoctorJ said its where the ground ends. Well, after cleaning the corrosion on it (over heated battery), connecting the pieces back and it started. Hunted down a timing light and got it on the money and man!! The car runs great now. Thanks everyone and thank you Doctor J.
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My A/T instructor told us long time ago :
the electricity is the science of connections;
therefore power source and the grounds needed to be checked as well
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