vibration at idle in and out of gear

[The Camry Man]

I was trying to fix a vibration at idle in neutral (and in gear stopped ) problem.

Just got finished pulling the right rear (firewall) tranny to crossmember Mount and did not see any rips in the old mount. I searched further and noticed that there was substantial gap between the bolt that goes through the mount and the wall of the bolt hole on the mount.
It seems like there should have been a sleeve in there or something . So I made a custom sleeve out of rubber hose that fit perfect. Put it all together and now have WORSE VIBRATION at idle than in the beginning. although driving is nice and smooth and feels nice quick responsive too.

I just read the thread about the timing belt area mount and plan to look at that tomorrow.

Is that gap supposed to be there on purpose?
Maybe I have 2 mounts out and replacing the othe will smoth it out.
I will compare to see if the old mount has collapsed.
_________________________________________________


Dr. J wrote...
The Front Right ("timing belt" mount) causes the vibration on idle,
...... and the rubber block "center mount" causes vibration while idling in gear or shock during gear change.

On 89 and newer the timing belt mount has a bolt in the center; loosen it about 2 turns and retorque it WHEN the car is on the level ground. that may help.

____________________Update __________

VIBRATION AT IDLE

1. I went through every mount finding NOT ONE RIP OR TEAR.
2. I tried jacking the engine and still vibrated.
3. I changed the Distrbutor , Wires and Plugs.
4. I checked all vaccum hoses.
5. Swapped out the AFM with another Camry.
6. Checked for air leaks for incoming tube.
7. Tested compression
8. Set timing to 10 degrees

FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT..TAKE A GUESS WHAT IT WAS !

[atobe]

idle was too low ?

[The Camry Man]

should have put on # 1 that I tried the idle adjustment ...sorry

NO! It is not the Idle.. No matter what the idle or what mount you changed .

It still was vibrating.

Come on you guys this is how we brain storm and come up with a fix for the people who rely on us.

Any othe guesses?

[Doctor J]

Harmonic balancer?

[hzt30]

Torque Converter??

[The Camry Man]

IT WAS JUST THE TIMING

Hard to believe as I moved the distributor all the way up and down to try to stop the vibration ut when I took it to my mechanic friend he kept insisting to set the timing after I put the jumper wire in the diagnostic clip per firewall instrutions.

I guess it had to be EXACTLY at 10 degrees. Smoothed right out.

Yes! my next step was to go to the flywheel (out of balance) or harmonic balancer for sure

Odd as I can move the distributor out of time on my other camry's and not get a vibration What do you think guys?

[Doctor J]

it can be good idea but it is to scientific to attach scope to the pickup coils [aka cam sensors] located inside the dizzy to see if some sort of interference goes on. The old coils tend to arc right on the distributor shaft ; the arc creates magnetic field that somehow alters the signal from pick up coils. This is only hypothesis however

[techi]

I'm working on 3 Camrys lately, 88,89,90 with vibration. One or all of these were fixes over the years for vibration problems.

Two had a leaking hose from valve cover to throttle body.

All camrys and corollas require the OEM thermostat....it makes a difference. Temperature and flow in the cooling system thru the thermostat is important. The OE thermostat has a pin that allows bypass coolant to flow during warm up, and as with other toyotas, the coolant flow and highly regulated temp. is important (ie....use preformed hoses that smooth the flow).

Three camrys have leaking oil into the distributor which affects the electronics and high tension in the distributor. I repair them by replacing the oil seal and bearing.

Two camrys, 89 & 90 have bad right front engine mount (by timing belt) and one has bad front mount. Noise sounds like a bad pump/squealing pig noise.

Idle and timing on the camrys have to be correct because of the computer can only compensate so much.

I have found all the above have affected engine vibration over the years of servicing. The 88 idles the best because the engine mount is a better design, but harder to get to the timing belt. The 88 mount lasts longer and after 88, there were production changes to make the car more cost effective(lower cost and make it more servicable).

[techi]

Here is an exerpt about oil and carbon tracking and why I didnt try to explain it further in previous post. Oil in the distributor can cause carbon tracking i.e weird effects from the pick up coils and trouble in the coil as well as the magnetics. A good cleaning of the distributor, replacing the oil seal and bearing(6200-2RS) will make the car run smoother.

The second thing people miss most is the ignitor grounding. Over time corrosion from the battery acid or corrosion in general causes a poor return path to the ignitor. Adding an additional bonding wire from ignitor to the ground strap( this is wire from battery to fender) will help provide a stronger spark. Do not hook directly to the battery. This is a very technical explanation.

MVFRI initiated research with Underwriters’
Laboratories (UL) to develop test procedures for controlling high voltage DC arcing . However,
the initial studies were unsuccessful and funding for the research was abandoned by MVFRI but There is also another phenomenon called “Carbon Tracking” which can be present at 14 volts, but will be more common at 42 volts. It is caused by an electric field across an “insulator.”“Insulators” can conduct small amounts of electricity and gradually convert the hydrocarbons inthe plastic to carbon - which is a good conductor. After considerable time (i.e. 10-15 years of a
vehicle lifetime), this deposit of carbon can grow until it is capable of conducting a large amountof current. Shortly after the current builds up, the material will effectively short and cause an arc, This process is accelerated by having conducting liquids or solids on the surface of the conductor.Oil, dirt, grime and moisture, which are readily available in the engine compartment, can get onthe plastic electrical components and speed-up the process.

[stanno]

Sorry to hijack, but i'm loving this thread!

My camry has rough idle SOMETIMES, but i attributed it to a break in the intake piping. Although my 3S-FE is the MAP sensor type, donno if it'd still affect idle.

I sometimes get a CEL when driving past 3rd gear (AUTO) at high speeds so i also think the timing may not be at stock 10deg. That could also contribute.

I have three new engine mounts put down in my house waiting to change (Timing belt mount, front and rear). I packed the front and rear mount with window sealant (poor man's solid mount) and they're curing as we speak. I'm gonna take note if idle gets better after i change the timing belt mount.

My dizzy does have oil in it , i changed the O-ring, but not the bearing, i wonder if that's why i still find oil in it.

[white90dx]

Solid poly mounts (whether homeade or otherwise) will SIGNIFICANTLY increase vibration at idle and at all other engine speeds to a lesser extent. The stiffer the polyurethane, the more the vibration. Have fun with it.

That said, i have upgraded (poly or stiff rubber) on all my cars...

-Charlie

[stanno]

How'd that work out charlie, much better throttle response?

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by stanno

How'd that work out charlie, much better throttle response?

Sort of. It didn't make any different with the Alltrac (automatic) other than adding the vibration.

With a manual transmission, it helps in making on/off throttle transitions a lot more predictable. It feels like the engine is better connected to the body, rather than it constantly trying to "catch up" with things (it was especially bad in my WRX before the change).

-Charlie

[techi]

Modifying stock mounts with silicone etc...might work, keep in mind, when it comes to vibration, its about resonance. the designers use computer modeling to look at the modal vibrations and design the mount accordingly. Over time, rubber deteriorates changing the stiffness etc..... good luck....

Stanno, BTW I was not talking about the "o" ring on the outside of the distributor. There is a seal on the inside shaft and bearing on the inside of the distributor......seal is hard to get.....more later.

Doc J. I got ur message about "packing" the bearings....I am on my way out of town on biz trip and will have to answer later......

[stanno]

techi.

I was talking about the inside o-ring. a pic of it is in that diagram with the # "19107A"


http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/diag_Dl9rNT.png

I changed that one, but oil is still present, although i didn't first coat it with engine oil like the manual said i should