Possible 2nd gen purchase; a few questions

[alfamike]

I'm looking to possibly purchase an 87 Camry wagon. It's very clean & straight, no rust, runs & drives great, & everything works except the front parking lights. It's a unique car in that it's a 5 speed with manual windows & locks. I work on cars for a living, but my specialty is old Italian cars. I have some questions about this car that I'm hoping all of you can possibly help with.

My biggest concern is that the coolant looks horrible. It's the color of coffee. I've never seen coolant so dark brown in color. OTOH, the engine oil looks brand new, & there are no other signs of head gasket failure. Do these cars have any history of somehow leaking oil into the coolant? The coolant in the overflow bottle seems to have an oily quality about it, but in the radiator, it just seems like brown coolant. I plan to put a t-belt/w-pump/t-stat on it as soon as I get it; so I'm not worried about the coolant in & of itself. I just don't want to have to put a head gasket on it.

2nd gear is a little harder to shift into than the other gears. Is this a shortcoming that can be tolerated, or is this a warning that a transmission teardown is coming soon?

There's a significant tear in the driver's seat, & that's the only flaw in the interior. Is seat fabric (cloth) for vintage Toyotas readily available?

The car has 235K miles. Can I reasonably expect to get 80K to 100K out of this car without a major mechanical failure? What would be reasonable expectations in terms of annual repair costs & down-time? I realize those are broad questions; so I'm just looking for ballpark numbers. I can work on the car myself. It's just that my spare time is limited. I did not originally intend to buy something this old, but I stumbled into this car. I do plan to use it as a daily driver. Also, I do have a backup car that I can use.

Lastly, does $1850 sound like a reasonable price for this car?

Thanks in advance for all input.

Michael Keith
Houston, TX

[AnimatedMechanic]

$1850 is not a reasonable price at all for a car with that many miles to be honest. Especially since the motor sounds like it is not in the best shape. You can get a lot of miles out of this car though, so try to bargain for around less than $1400.

[alfamike]

I thought the price was a little high myself. However, other than the tear in the driver's seat & some typical rock chips in the paint on the nose, the car is in time warp condition; not only in terms of paint & interior, but also in the appearance of the engine compartment & undercarriage. It is impossibly clean, & the paint looks original. In short, the car looks like an ultra-low mileage garage queen to the point that you'd think the original driver's seat had been replaced with one out of a lesser car. I had not originally planned to buy something anywhere near this old, but this car's condition won me over at least to the point of seriously considering it.

Also, it runs & drives fantastic; no leaks or smoking of any sort. I'm only planning to replace the timing belt, etc because I don't know the age/mileage of the current belt. The color of the coolant & the tight 2nd gear are my biggest concerns. If they are signs of inevitable expensive repairs on the horizon, then I'll pass. If a thorough coolant flush & careful shifting will get me by, then I'll probably buy it.

Michael Keith
Houston, TX

[white90dx]

The tear is the seat is normal (I'm assuming on the left side bolster due to the seatbelt). I don't know if there is a good source of new seat fabric though - I haven't searched. I have either put race seats or newer seats (from other cars) into my Camrys.

If the previous owner has failed to change the coolant for many years, you may be seeing rust/corrosion in the coolant, not oil. I would expect oil in the coolant to be a milk chocolate brown, not coffee brown. The color may also be due to incorrect mixing of different vintages of Toyota coolant. The car originally shipped with standard green coolant, but Toyota changed to a dark red coolant (awesome stuff!) in the 90's. They don't mix and you need a good flush with water if you are going to switch.

Head gaskets are not a regular problem, but it is still a possibility.

As for the transmission, normally 3rd is the issue. The factory fluid in the 4-cylinder 5-speed transmission is Dexron ATF, not normal gear oil. Changing this out to a standard DOT4 gear oil with some GM synchromesh (1 quart) will probably get it shifting well again unless it is really crunchy.

Otherwise, the 5-speed will give the car much neede pep... the 4-cylinder autos are really slow. Many Camrys have seen 300k miles easily if taken care of properly, so this could be what you are looking for. I agree on the other comment on price.

-Charlie

[alfamike]

It maybe that the car has Toyota red coolant mixed with rust. Is the Toyota red coolant a straight red when new, or is it more of a pink color such as GM's Dexcool & VW's G12? There were some small particles in the coolant, & this car does have a block heater (came from Montana). It could be that the heating element in that block heater is degrading.

Regarding the tear in the seats, it's actually on the outside seatback bolster resulting from entry/exit, & it's more than a tear. Most of the fabric on that bolster is gone. However, because of the condition of the rest of the car, I would be very reluctant to install non-original seats.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by alfamike

It maybe that the car has Toyota red coolant mixed with rust. Is the Toyota red coolant a straight red when new, or is it more of a pink color such as GM's Dexcool & VW's G12? There were some small particles in the coolant, & this car does have a block heater (came from Montana). It could be that the heating element in that block heater is degrading.

Regarding the tear in the seats, it's actually on the outside seatback bolster resulting from entry/exit, & it's more than a tear. Most of the fabric on that bolster is gone. However, because of the condition of the rest of the car, I would be very reluctant to install non-original seats.

The 90's Toyota Red coolant is a true, deep red. The late model Toyota stuff is now pink ('Lifetime' instead of 'Long Life' I think).

The tear you are describing probably started with seatbelt rub and got worse from there. The odd design of the seatbelts (pulling the lab belt over) causes this to happen more than in other cars. Either way though, it sounds like it will have to be replaced.

-Charlie

[AnimatedMechanic]

Well in that case, I see a good reason to buy the car. white90dx said exactly what I was gonna say also. If the coolant is just brown and not milky, it's most likely that you just have rusty water. And the seat? Just change it. That same tear happens on just about ever 2nd generation Camry I have seen.

[alfamike]

Yea, milkshake is what I'm used to seeing if there's head gasket problems. It's just that I've never seen coolant that color of brown before, & since the coolant in the overflow bottle had an oily quality about it, I was a little concerned. I'm sure it's rusty red coolant in there.

I'm gonna have the wife see the car this weekend, & if she gives it the thumbs up (since she'll have to drive it sometimes), I'll try to make a deal on it.

Thanks for all the input.

Michael Keith
Houston, TX

[270+Camry]

the coffee comment sounds like my car. i know i dont have a blown gasket, have done cylinder compression tests and have also done a preassure test, no issues. my guess? brown is from rust and crap water/tap water, yes, i know i need to backflush lol.

however, the car is still kicking mighty strong at almost 272k miles, and i got the car for 250 bucks. obviously, i got it for a steal, but these cars run forever. I've heard of these gettin over 300k miles easy. I've been driving this car for over a year, and I am a very bad man to cars, but this thing is bomb proof. Aside from oil changes and a break job the only work ive had to do to it was a water bypass line which was a $150 dollar dealership part

1800 sounds high, but toyotas maintain their value, so eh. talk them down some. Also, Charlie is on point about the 5 speed, but I would also say check the reservoir next to the brake booster.

as to cost, i run 87 octane, get on average anywhere from 28mpg to 32+ depending on how I am driving, personal best being something like 37 but there was no fun involved with that, I don't think I even went above 70mph Parts arent hard to find and they are very interchangeable, not much of an aftermarket for the camry but you can still get by swapping from other toyotas. Parts aren't expensive and you can almost always find several of these at the wreckers if junk yard rummaging is your thing. IMO the best thing about owning this car to me is the following the car has. People in places like this forum can be EXTREMELY useful and knowledgeable, so that is also a big bonus about the car.

[84Cressida]

A wrecking yard will no doubt have a seat that hasn't been worn out.

[alfamike]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I figured I'd post this reply to close it out. Many thanks for everyone's input. I did end up buying the car.

It took a while because I had to wait for him to get clear title to it. He was trying to sell it to me with the previous owner's title, but he'd already put his name on there as the buyer. I told him that I'd buy it, but there was no way it could happen unless he got clear title in his name.

I ended up paying full price. He wouldn't let it go for less because he had about $250 tied up in transferring the title due to late fees & such. Although that's a lot for a 2nd gen with lots of miles, I feel OK about it. I went over the car very carefully, & I couldn't find any signs that it had been hit and/or painted, & the paint looks great. The car runs & drives fantastic, & everything works. Bear in mind that I evaluate this sort of stuff for a living on vintage Italian cars. My philosophy with old cars has always been that you're better off in the long run to over pay for a good one than to get a bargain on a beater.

More questions coming soon.