Did a tune-up on my car and after driving car went WOT on its own! omg

[holmesnmanny]

Hey guys, I wanna talk about something that happened yesterday. I am still trying to figure out what the hell happened.

You can see the car I have in my sig. I replaced the plugs, cap, rotor. In order to get to the plugs I had to pull the egr valve to get clearance, so I cleaned that up as well and used two new gaskets. I put it all back together and for some reason didn't change out the air filter even though it had a small tear at the very top throttle body facing area. I tore off what I thought was the part that was coming off, it was about 4 inches or so of the black rubber facing the throttle body. Needless to say, it actually was much harder than I thought it was gonna be, I had to pull a couple hoses which meant draining the coolant just to get to the cap and rotor.

Anyway, I finished up, started it up, it idled awesomely. Everything was fine. I then proceeded to take it out of my carport and got about fifty feet as I was going over the speedbumps in my complex and as I applied the brake after going over a speedbump the thing immediately started accelerating to wide open throttle. Keep in mind I was pressing the brake, I can not stress this anymore as I found myself trying to hold back the car with the brake. I immediately through the car into neutral with my quick instincts stopped the car as I was only going about 10 miles an hour and killed the engine. As I put the car into neutral, obviously the car was taken out of gear so the rpm's started to climb towards redline. I was like, "wtf just happened" and started thinking about what just happened. I then went, this must have been some kind of fluke so I tried to start it back up and the thing started and then immediately started accelerating to wide open throttle (WOT). I'm talking redlineage! I then immediately killed the engine again and popped the hood. I played with the throttle keeping in mind since I have an automatic there are two cables, one holding the throttle and the other for the cruise control. It was not binded at all.

I then pulled the intake hose. I saw that there was a little black rubber piece wedged actually under the butterfly. Now, immediately I thought, "well, I guess that thing got wedged and held the throttle open so I took it out and tossed it. It was about a half inch long and quarter inch high but for some reason I didn't think anything except that that was the cause, but thinking back now there is no way that was the cause because it was only holding the butterfly open a quarter inch or so, mainly like 5 degrees. It must have broke off from the air filter. Now if I had been accelerating to WOT then I can surely assume that got wedged and held it open but I was only going 5 to 10 miles per hour so something else was causing it to accelerate. I really didn't think much at the time, but a few minutes later I managed to recall that Toyota has been in the news for sudden unintended acceration problems. I've been researching and only found one thread that had the same symptons as mine.

high engine speed

Getting back to when I pulled the intake tube. I tried starting the car with the tube off and it wouldn't start so I put it back on and tried to start it, it started right up. I am led to believe that unlike Honda's, Toyota's have to have the tube put on to start? Anyway, I've been racking my brain, while driving around very apprehensively, as to try to figure out what happened. Searching the net, only one other pre-2003 car had the same problem as mine, it was the 1996 Toyota Camry incident when a guy went to prison for killing a police office and his family. I believe going from the above posters comments and my own opinion, that the only thing that can cause this stuff is a cruise control malfunction of some sort. I don't know exactly how cruise controls work, but I know that my 5 speed Honda Accord did not have a separate cable attached to the throttle body like this Toyota Camry automatic has. I believe that my accord's cruise control pushes the pedal while the automatic cars cruise control pushes the cable on the throttle body.

I would love to hear if anyone else has had this thing happen to them here.

[white90dx]

Phew, where to start.

First, completely forget trying to relate this to any of the '03+ accellerator issues. Those cars have electronic throttles and are totally different than your Camry.

Second, opening the throttle body 1/4-1/2" or so would redline the engine in neutral pretty easily. It would also make it surprisingly hard to stop the car. Hopefully you learned your lesson with the air filter. You dont' want anything that might come loose and go into your engine anywhere in your intake tract. While you are at it... I would suggest that you completely disassemble your intake manifold and make sure you don't have any other parts in there that could cause problems down the road.

As for the two cables on the throttle body... one is there for the transmission (you can follow it right to the front of the trans) and one is the actual throttle cable. From there, it goes to the cruise module (black box, front opposite the battery) if equiped and then to the firewall and pedal assembly.

You are correct that the engine will not run with the intake hose removed (it should run for about 1 second...). The metal thing on the top of the airbox is the Air Flow Meter, and if that isn't sealed and connected to the throttle body, the engine won't run.

-Charlie

[holmesnmanny]

First of all, the butterfly being open a quarter to half an inch is NOT going to push the rpm's to redline. No way, no how. I can not believe you are under the impression it would. Go out to your car and slightly push the gas while the car is in neutral and you tell me what happens. It would simulate a cold start idle, is the highest you would see the rpm's raise.

I did not follow the cable before posting so I was only guesstimating. Be that as it may, and I still haven't bothered following the cable, there is only one reason why the throttle would go WOT and that is a cruise control malfunction of some sort because only ME and the cruise control have any control over the throttle at any given time. Period.

In that linked thread I posted, you will hear from a guy who said that his cruise control solenoid was the culprit and I'm inclined to think the same applies here.

Regarding taking apart the intake manifold I plan on doing so in the next week or so.

Lastly, I think you need to work on your people skills. Telling someone you don't know who has done nothing at all to either you or anyone else here to "hope your learned your lesson" is completely out of line. Seems to me you have a lot to learn about respect.

[dem2757]

90dx knows more about this car than you do...so it would be a bit ridiculous to say he has no right to "scold" you. nothing should be loose in that area, as you could have sucked that rubber into the engine and done worse.

anyways. you car doesn't have a solenoid, it has a vacuum actuator controlled by the cruise control computer and it cannot and will not activate unless the speed sensor is showing 25 mph or above. you hitting a speedbump and getting the wot probably means you had a vacuum leak bypassing the throttle butterfly or that chunk of rubber lodged your butterfly open. your cold start rpm is modulated by the ISC valve, which has nothing to do with the butterfly. the butterfly being open 1/4 of and inch could cause rpm redline in neutral. this is why throttle cable adjustment needs to be precise, as an engine doesnt need much air to open up.

No torque to transmission = free moving flywheel = no resistance to high rpms. this is why your cold idle drops 1.5 rpms when you shift to drive...

you asked for help, and he provided it. please do not attack someone for trying to help. unless you wish to diagnose your car by yourself.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by holmesnmanny

First of all, the butterfly being open a quarter to half an inch is NOT going to push the rpm's to redline. No way, no how. I can not believe you are under the impression it would. Go out to your car and slightly push the gas while the car is in neutral and you tell me what happens. It would simulate a cold start idle, is the highest you would see the rpm's raise.

I did not follow the cable before posting so I was only guesstimating. Be that as it may, and I still haven't bothered following the cable, there is only one reason why the throttle would go WOT and that is a cruise control malfunction of some sort because only ME and the cruise control have any control over the throttle at any given time. Period.

In that linked thread I posted, you will hear from a guy who said that his cruise control solenoid was the culprit and I'm inclined to think the same applies here.

Regarding taking apart the intake manifold I plan on doing so in the next week or so.

Lastly, I think you need to work on your people skills. Telling someone you don't know who has done nothing at all to either you or anyone else here to "hope your learned your lesson" is completely out of line. Seems to me you have a lot to learn about respect.

You were the one sucked something into your engine, not me. You might have some room to complain about my reading comprehension (I misread your comment about the modern Toyota accelleration problems), but my people skills? Hmmmm... Its the internet, get over it. Try re-reading my post with your "people are positive and helpful" hat, instead of your "people are going to put me down" hat.

-Charlie

[holmesnmanny]

Originally Posted by dem2757

90dx knows more about this car than you do...so it would be a bit ridiculous to say he has no right to "scold" you. nothing should be loose in that area, as you could have sucked that rubber into the engine and done worse.

anyways. you car doesn't have a solenoid, it has a vacuum actuator controlled by the cruise control computer and it cannot and will not activate unless the speed sensor is showing 25 mph or above. you hitting a speedbump and getting the wot probably means you had a vacuum leak bypassing the throttle butterfly or that chunk of rubber lodged your butterfly open. your cold start rpm is modulated by the ISC valve, which has nothing to do with the butterfly. the butterfly being open 1/4 of and inch could cause rpm redline in neutral. this is why throttle cable adjustment needs to be precise, as an engine doesnt need much air to open up.

No torque to transmission = free moving flywheel = no resistance to high rpms. this is why your cold idle drops 1.5 rpms when you shift to drive...

you asked for help, and he provided it. please do not attack someone for trying to help. unless you wish to diagnose your car by yourself.

First of all, I didn't "attack" him. If I wanted to attack him I would have. If you can find anything in my post that shows I "attacked" him, I'll gladly shoot you over 50 bucks. As I said before, he needs to learn a little about respect since he failed to show it in his first post, regardless of how much he knows about cars, which is completely besides the point on this issue. I'm not going to kiss someones ass just to get their opinion. If he doesn't have anything to say he doesn't have to respond. I like helping people out, that doesn't give me a right to go bash someone or tell 'em I hope they learned their lesson just because they had an issue with their car. If you want to kiss his ass, go ahead, but I'm not going to.

Moving along, if I was already WOT and it stayed that way I can understand something being lodged inside the butterfly "sticking" the butterfly open, but as I said that did not occur. From idle my car raced to WOT. Something did that. Not me. Not some small 1/4 inch by 1/2 inch piece of worn rubber pushing open the butterfly. That just isn't possible.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by holmesnmanny

First of all, I didn't "attack" him. If I wanted to attack him I would have. If you can find anything in my post that shows I "attacked" him, I'll gladly shoot you over 50 bucks. As I said before, he needs to learn a little about respect since he failed to show it in his first post, regardless of how much he knows about cars, which is completely besides the point on this issue. I'm not going to kiss someones ass just to get their opinion. If he doesn't have anything to say he doesn't have to respond. I like helping people out, that doesn't give me a right to go bash someone or tell 'em I hope they learned their lesson just because they had an issue with their car. If you want to kiss his ass, go ahead, but I'm not going to.

Moving along, if I was already WOT and it stayed that way I can understand something being lodged inside the butterfly "sticking" the butterfly open, but as I said that did not occur. From idle my car raced to WOT. Something did that. Not me. Not some small 1/4 inch by 1/2 inch piece of worn rubber pushing open the butterfly. That just isn't possible.

LOL again. I gave you my opinion and information on most of the questions/points in your original message. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

If you believe it is the cruise control instead of something being lodged in the throttle body (which is a possibility), bypass the cruise control module and move on with your life because you obviously aren't here to get opinions and information from other people.

-Charlie

['88 All-Trac]

Give me a sec. I'm sitting in my car. I'll pop it in neutral, open the throttle body about .375 inches, and tell you what happens. white90dx is to the gen 2 camry as I am to the gen 1 tracker. He knows everything there is to know about them.

Edit: redline in just over ~4 seconds. Got there quick enough for me. While I'm on the subject, how did you get the coil? Mine is a pita to get to.

[holmesnmanny]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

Give me a sec. I'm sitting in my car. I'll pop it in neutral, open the throttle body about .375 inches, and tell you what happens. white90dx is to the gen 2 camry as I am to the gen 1 tracker. He knows everything there is to know about them.

Edit: redline in just over ~4 seconds. Got there quick enough for me. While I'm on the subject, how did you get the coil? Mine is a pita to get to.

When I'm saying open the throttle body I'm referring to simulating something being stuck in between the butterfly and the throttle body itself, at the bottom simulating something about a 1/4 inch getting stuck preventing it from being fully closed. When you push the gas this would have to be ever so gently touched to simulate it. The piece I found lodged was very small.

Regarding the coil, I never changed the coil. To get to the cap, I pulled the intake tube of course and removed the two coolant hoses going to the pipe to get a screwdriver to the cap after draining the coolant. To get the rotor off I used a mini screwdriver(bout 3 or 4 inches long) after moving the screw to about 2 o'clock(standing on drivers side) by turning the alternator pulley.

['88 All-Trac]

Oh, I apologize. Mine is a worn-out 4cyl. I did not use the pedal, I manually turned the cam assembly that controls the throttle plate. I gave it about 5 degrees rotation.

The coil, in my humble opinion, should be replaced when a tune up is performed. As for your wot issue, with a v6... I am unsure. I mainly do '86 to '98 suzuki tech. Is there anything else holding that plate open? Is your TPS damaged? I know that a blown TPS on a 4cyl can cause the engine to tin erratically, and the unit in my '88 All-Trac failed without warning the day before I bought it. The PO knocked $200 off the price because he did not know why the idle was flying up and down.

[holmesnmanny]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

Oh, I apologize. Mine is a worn-out 4cyl. I did not use the pedal, I manually turned the cam assembly that controls the throttle plate. I gave it about 5 degrees rotation.

The coil, in my humble opinion, should be replaced when a tune up is performed. As for your wot issue, with a v6... I am unsure. I mainly do '86 to '98 suzuki tech. Is there anything else holding that plate open? Is your TPS damaged? I know that a blown TPS on a 4cyl can cause the engine to tin erratically, and the unit in my '88 All-Trac failed without warning the day before I bought it. The PO knocked $200 off the price because he did not know why the idle was flying up and down.

The thing about it is that i was pushing the brake while going around 10 mph before the car started flooring itself. I never had the car above 2000 rpms or so. I was pushing the brake and felt the car pull itself. That's when I threw it into neutral and when I did obviously it's not in gear so it started immediately racing to redline/WOT. Then I killed it as I had come to a stop already. When I started it it immediately started climbing to redline before I killed the engine again. It was almost to redline both times. I would say around 6200 rpms.

I rarely replace the coil as it's normally an expensive part and the only time I had to replace one was when I did a compression test on my accord and forgot to disable the ignition and the coil burned out and smoked when I started the car back up. I did look at mine and it appears to be in good shape. I think the only thing a a tps would do is make it run bad as the car would vary the fuel incorrectly. The only tps's I have seen do have a spring inside that is tied to the butterfly but it's really weak in comparison to the one located attached to the butterfly. I wouldn't completely rule it out 'though.