1st & 2nd Generation (1983–1986 & 1987-1991)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1983-1986 & 1987-1991.
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
I have a 4cyl 5-speed Camry with about 256k miles on it. This is kind of an odd problem and I haven't been able to track it down yet.
When I go to start my car, regardless of engine temp, it will have a hard time starting. If it does start, it will run very rough and then sputter and stall. When it fails to start or run smooth, I turn the ignition completely off then try to start it again. Eventually it will start up and run flawlessly. It will sometime fire up on the first try, and sometimes it could take me 20 tries before it runs. I've checked the battery terminals and they're clean and tight.
Does anyone know what would cause a starting issue like this? Once I get the car running the check engine light does not come on so I haven't been able to pull any codes, and once it's running I haven't had any trouble out of it.
Are you saying that the starter will not crank (spin over) the engine at times, or that the starter cranks the engine over and the engine doesn't start? You need to clarify this so we can point you in the right direction.
The starter spins the engine everytime. When I try to start it one of three things happens:
1. The engine will not fire
2. The engine will fire and run very rough and then stall out shortly after
3. The engine will fire up fine and run like a top with no issues whatsoever
I recently gave the car a tune up with a new distributor, wires, fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, and timing belt. I was thinking maybe a ground somewhere was loose or the ECU is going bad but I'm not sure where to look or how to test these things.
It sounds like a problem with the cold start injector time switch. Don't be fooled, it also acts while the starter is engaged (so it can affect cold and warm starts).
You can check for power at the cold start injector (middle of the manifold, has a fuel line and an electrical connection to it and bolts to the manifold) to see if the switch is failing. When cold, it should have power while cranking and after until the engine warms up a bit, when the engine is hot, it should only have power while cranking.
When mine when out (broke in half!) it would take 5+ seconds to start and was very difficult to keep running for a when cold (Southern California cold, not real cold). Warm starts were hit and miss.
-Charlie
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2003 Impreza WRX Wagon 5spd - 2.2L stroker + other goodies
1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd - SV25/ST205 hybrid
1990 Camry 3S-GTE 5spd - parted out / junked
1990 Camry DX 3S-FE 5spd - The original white90dx; gone but not forgotten
I will check that. When I get the car up to opperating temp, I can turn the car off and I will have the same trouble trying to start it again. Sometimes it will fire right away, other time I try and try again. Would the cold start injector still play a role if the engine is at temp? EDIT: Sorry, I reread your post and say where you said it also affects warm and cold starts.
I tried to pull the codes by jumping the TE1 and T1 diagnostic terminals but my Check Engine light just flashed constantly. I counted up to 120 before I gave up. Maybe I wasn't doing it right?
I agree with whitedx90 that the cold start time switch needs to be tested. To do this you will need a digital volt/ohmeter and the specs from any manual. The cold start time switch is located on a coolant port to the right of the engine block, as you are standing in front of the engine. It is located under a brown colored plastic connector. Remove the connector and touch the 2 probes of the meter (set at the proper ohm scale) to the 2 prongs on the switch. Removing the connector can be a bit of a chore. The best way I found to do that is to pry each side of the locking tab out and then stick a toothpick or small probe on each side to keep it from snapping back to it's locking position. Do that to each side and and then wiggle the connector off. Maybe someone can suggest a better way to remove that locking connector.
I was able to get the connector off and test the cold start time switch. It was right around 34ohms. From what I can tell 30-35 is the acceptable range. There is also a little wire that connects to the head directly to the left of the cold start time switch. The connection looks very oily, if it's important for starting the car I could see this area being a problem. Does anyone know what it is?
Ok, that's good to know and yes they were just constant quick flashes.
The water temp senor is new since last summer before the starting issue began and the guage registers coolant temp correctly.
Only other sensors I can think of are the air flow sensor and the throttle position sensor. Any other sensors related to starting I should check?
Another thing I noticed, when I crank the car over and it runs rough the throttle doesn't affect the engine at all. When I crank the car over it will sometimes barely idle and will shake roughly. When this happens I can put the gas pedal to the floor and it doesn't affect idle one bit. I thought this was very strange considering it should be letting air into the intake and increasing the RPMs or at least stalling it out.
"The water temp senor is new since last summer before the starting issue began and the guage registers coolant temp correctly."
I think you are talking about the sensor that sends the signal to the gage on the dash. I think white90dx is talking about the one that feeds information to the computer to determine the basic fuel mixture. That one is referred to as the engine coolant temperature sensor (and sometimes it's called the ECT sesnor in some of the Toyota Manuals). It should be under a green plastic connector on the same coolant port where you found the cold start time switch. Get the DVM out again and the manual and check that sensor. Check it both cold and hot.
The coolant sensor is checking out ok. Right now I'm thinking it might be either the TPS, MAF, or a ground. Any good ways to check to see if the power to the MAF, TPS, and everything else is grounded?
You may want to double check connectors on the fuel pump ( under the rear seat) and hoses on the top of the gas tank (vapor recovery)
Then try to start/run the engine with jumper between B+ and FP connector
if these tests will not make difference run the compression test
It will power the fuel pump directly from the main relay so even if AFM or circuit opening (fuel pump) relay are having problems the pump will still run. This will build up the pressure in the system for start up; if the engine will run very good after starting with jumper but will start to miss 3 seconds after start, the fuel pump may have issue
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