EGR Question

[Grego 92]

Last night my CEL went on and had a code 25 and 26. I noticed earlier during that day while at a 4 way stop when I accelerated after coming to a stop it stuttered for a second and then went on fine. That night with the CEL still on it still started great, idled ok, and ran fine.

This morning I wake up and checked my manual. It mentioned a bunch of stuff. And, with all the work I recently did (new Denso O2 sensors, new NGK platinum plugs, new OEM distributor cap/rotor/ NGK wires, all injectors and cold start re-done by Witchhunter, etc...) I figured the only thing that wasn't completely new or thoroughly cleaned was the EGR valve.

So I did what the manual said and put direct vacuum to the valve via the vacuum hose going to the cruise control module thingy. It did what the manual said it should do, stutter and almost die. So, I said "great" and put the hoses back to where they belong.

I got in the car, and proceeded to drive. And WOW!!! the acceleration was real perky! and then the CEL went off. I cruised around with this new "peppy" car. I was thinking the car was just old and so ran fine all this time I had been driving it since the re-build (I never drove it before it started having problems and stopped running - given to me with a blown head gasket). To say the least I'm happier than before.

My Question is: Do you think the EGR valve is going out and that vacuum to the valve temporarily fixed something? Do you think maybe something was clogged and that vacuum sucked it out? Anyone have a similar problem before? Would a clean EGR valve give back a car it's "peppiness"?

[Doctor J]

The piece of carbon may stuck under the EGR valve seat causing it to leak,
but codes 25 and 26 have something to do with O2 sensor i think.

[Grego 92]

Maybe some carbon got sucked out of the way like you said. I've been driving it all day and nothing has changed except I have a lot more fun stepping on the gas!

The manual does say a code 25 and 26 that it's a lean or rich mixture and the 02 sensor could be the problem among other things, but they are brand new denso's that I passed smog with just a few hundred miles ago. That's why I looked elsewhere and So I was reading (either in this forum or another) that a clogged egr could cause that symptom also, so that's why I looked there first.

It must have caused the codes because that's the only thing I did was apply direct vacuum to the egr valve and the codes went away. I have no idea what happen but it works now.

Just bothers me that I'm not really sure what the problem was....

[sfjen]

Aloha Grego-
I saw your posting here: Wanted to ask you where you purchased all of these parts at? Any from the dealer or all online? Did you also get new plug wires too? How long was the turn around time to have your cold start injector cleaned/rebuilt? I am assuming you did all the work yourself too. Take care now.
Mahalo,
glen

Originally Posted by Grego 92

Last night my CEL went on and had a code 25 and 26. I noticed earlier during that day while at a 4 way stop when I accelerated after coming to a stop it stuttered for a second and then went on fine. That night with the CEL still on it still started great, idled ok, and ran fine.

This morning I wake up and checked my manual. It mentioned a bunch of stuff. And, with all the work I recently did (new Denso O2 sensors, new NGK platinum plugs, new OEM distributor cap/rotor/ NGK wires, all injectors and cold start re-done by Witchhunter, etc...) I figured the only thing that wasn't completely new or thoroughly cleaned was the EGR valve.

So I did what the manual said and put direct vacuum to the valve via the vacuum hose going to the cruise control module thingy. It did what the manual said it should do, stutter and almost die. So, I said "great" and put the hoses back to where they belong.

I got in the car, and proceeded to drive. And WOW!!! the acceleration was real perky! and then the CEL went off. I cruised around with this new "peppy" car. I was thinking the car was just old and so ran fine all this time I had been driving it since the re-build (I never drove it before it started having problems and stopped running - given to me with a blown head gasket). To say the least I'm happier than before.

My Question is: Do you think the EGR valve is going out and that vacuum to the valve temporarily fixed something? Do you think maybe something was clogged and that vacuum sucked it out? Anyone have a similar problem before? Would a clean EGR valve give back a car it's "peppiness"?

[AnimatedMechanic]

This scenario sounds EXACTLY like mines...just rebuilt the motor and I also have that stuttering problem. How much does an O2 sensor run for these cars? Or can I just clean it?

[Grego 92]

Hey Glen,

I used a combination of places. Mostly from my neighborhood auto store and online dealer (toyotapartszone = Norwalk Toyota in Cali). My two local dealerships in Gardena/Torrance Cali are about 25-30% higher then Norwalk.

Witchhunter was fast, I got a shipping back notice two days after they received them. Total time period probably depends on shipping time though, they are in the state of Washington I think. I heard very good things from the off-road toyota guys so that's why I used them. They give you a quote online so real easy. They clean/rebuild the fuel injectors, but the cold start I think they just need to clean.

O2 sensors and plugs/wires came from sparkplugs.com or oxygensensors.com. I have to get Cali sensors and I remember one being more expensive than the other, I don't think either of them were more than $55 each though. The cap/rotor are oem.

Whether or not you can just clean them? I can't answer that, maybe Dr. J or White90dx can help you with that question.

My finished engine from a few months ago

[sfjen]

Aloha Greg-
Wow, that is such a nice looking engine! Did you detail it or did it come to you very clean? That is just amazing!

Also, in regard to the injectors, do you think it is better to get the servicing you had done, instead of buying new ones? I am just curious about that.

One thing I notice when I first start up the car is that it revs a little high, around 1200~1500rpm, in Park. Then when I put the car in gear (reverse or drive) it drops down to 700rpm. So, I am wondering what this may need. After this first time start up for the day, it does not seem to do it anymore. I was wondering if this is something with injectors or a sensor.

Thanks again.
Mahalo,
glen

Originally Posted by Grego 92

Hey Glen,

I used a combination of places. Mostly from my neighborhood auto store and online dealer (toyotapartszone = Norwalk Toyota in Cali). My two local dealerships in Gardena/Torrance Cali are about 25-30% higher then Norwalk.

Witchhunter was fast, I got a shipping back notice two days after they received them. Total time period probably depends on shipping time though, they are in the state of Washington I think. I heard very good things from the off-road toyota guys so that's why I used them. They give you a quote online so real easy. They clean/rebuild the fuel injectors, but the cold start I think they just need to clean.

O2 sensors and plugs/wires came from sparkplugs.com or oxygensensors.com. I have to get Cali sensors and I remember one being more expensive than the other, I don't think either of them were more than $55 each though. The cap/rotor are oem.

Whether or not you can just clean them? I can't answer that, maybe Dr. J or White90dx can help you with that question.

My finished engine from a few months ago

[Frodo65]

Originally Posted by Grego 92

Maybe some carbon got sucked out of the way like you said. I've been driving it all day and nothing has changed except I have a lot more fun stepping on the gas!

The manual does say a code 25 and 26 that it's a lean or rich mixture and the 02 sensor could be the problem among other things, but they are brand new denso's that I passed smog with just a few hundred miles ago. That's why I looked elsewhere and So I was reading (either in this forum or another) that a clogged egr could cause that symptom also, so that's why I looked there first.

It must have caused the codes because that's the only thing I did was apply direct vacuum to the egr valve and the codes went away. I have no idea what happen but it works now.

Just bothers me that I'm not really sure what the problem was....

Keep in mind that a vacuum hose leak will also set the 'lean' codes - the code means the ECU isn't able to keep the mixture 'responding right'. Ditto on an exhaust leak - although this would show up as noise.

Your 'cure' indicates some fault with the EGR control circuits - again, with vacuum hoses being a likely suspect (and the fittings cracking a close second).

[Grego 92]

Thanks Frodo....maybe a piece of carbon clogged up the leak in a hose, I'll keep your advice in mind when it happens again.

Glen, I can't help you much as far as technical assistance, I never did anything like this before and everything I learned is pretty much from this board. People like Charlie (the one helping you) are the ones that helped me when I had questions.

I've never done anything like this before, it was a pure learning experience for me. I got the car for free with a blown head gasket so that's why I stripped it down and painted everything before I put it back together. Then I just went crazy in restoring it as best I could. When I finally get it painted I'll post some full pics of everything I did. I'm pretty proud of myself and it goes to show that anyone, regardless of how little experience, can repair a car with time, patience, and a little $....Oh yeah, and with the help from people on this board!!

[holmesnmanny]

Originally Posted by sfjen

Aloha Greg-
Wow, that is such a nice looking engine! Did you detail it or did it come to you very clean? That is just amazing!

Also, in regard to the injectors, do you think it is better to get the servicing you had done, instead of buying new ones? I am just curious about that.

One thing I notice when I first start up the car is that it revs a little high, around 1200~1500rpm, in Park. Then when I put the car in gear (reverse or drive) it drops down to 700rpm. So, I am wondering what this may need. After this first time start up for the day, it does not seem to do it anymore. I was wondering if this is something with injectors or a sensor.

Thanks again.
Mahalo,
glen

The car, upon a cold startup, is designed to rev higher upon startup so that the car warms up faster and that it won't die. A cold car has more air density so they outnumber the fuel too much so the car needs to warm up faster.