90 Camry. Starts right up, then immediately dies.

[q.man06]

So I have a friend of mine who needed some help with his camry. After a new battery and making sure the starter was functional, he was stumped and called me up. It died on him on the highway, and after having him look at the distributer rotor while someone cranked the car, we quickly found out it was a timing belt issue.

We tow the car to my shop, replace the timing belt and water pump, and then go to fire it up. First crank it fired, just like it should; however, as soon as the car reached it's fast idle point, the engine dies. Giving it throttle doesn't seem to help-- it only seems to bring the revs up about another ~200 rpm for the ~1 second that it does run.

This is what i've done:

-Pulled the plug wires and watched them spark on the frame, meaning we have spark.
-Jumped the B+ and Fp wires in the diagnostic plug to make sure there is power to the fuel pump. I can hear it kicking on, so I assume it's working.
-Replaced spark plugs with known good plugs (NGK)

I did find out that I can keep the engine running by spraying carb cleaner into the TB, but that's it. This makes me assume it's a fuel related issue; however, I can smell the fuel so I figured it was rich.

I'm a little stumped as to where to start looking first. Any input would be greatly appreciated.



Side note: We haven't added coolant yet, seeing as we wanted to make sure the car actually started and ran first. Not sure if that has any bearing on this issue at all.

Engine: 3S-FE
Trans: Manual
310k miles

[Doctor J]

Make sure you got the valve timing correctly; when belt is one tooth off the engine demonstrates similar symptoms
Check the trouble codes; code 51 (open idle contacts on TP switch with throttle closed) can cause idle problems

[white90dx]

Is the airbox, AFM (air flow meter), and air intake tube in place and sealed/fastened? The car will not run with an open intake.

If you removed the AFM, there is a chance you damaged it - the plug is removed by the small metal clip, not the screws on the top of the AFM. If those were removed and the wiring was pulled on, you likely damaged the internals of the AFM and it will need to be repaired/replaced.

-Charlie

[q.man06]

I'll double check the valve timing, it's retarded how the timing marks are on this engine... you'd think they would put it where you can actually see it.


It's not an idle problem, it's an "engine won't run for more than one second" problem.

The intake is sealed, but the only way i've been able to keep the car running was spraying carb cleaner directly into the TB, which obviously I had to take off the intake pipe to do that.

[Doctor J]

make sure you are checking the trouble codes

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by white90dx

If you removed the AFM, there is a chance you damaged it - the plug is removed by the small metal clip, not the screws on the top of the AFM. If those were removed and the wiring was pulled on, you likely damaged the internals of the AFM and it will need to be repaired/replaced.

-Charlie

The description still sounds like an AFM problem to me. If the motor runs perfectly for ~1 second then suddenly dies (no sputtering, etc.), I would check that first.

Please verify my above comments on the AFM.

-Charlie

[q.man06]

So, I double checked the cam timing, and it seems spot on with the crank. I did; however, find this:




As a side note, this is the timing belt..... or rather, what is left of it.

[q.man06]

Originally Posted by white90dx

Is the airbox, AFM (air flow meter), and air intake tube in place and sealed/fastened? The car will not run with an open intake.

If you removed the AFM, there is a chance you damaged it - the plug is removed by the small metal clip, not the screws on the top of the AFM. If those were removed and the wiring was pulled on, you likely damaged the internals of the AFM and it will need to be repaired/replaced.

-Charlie

To the best of my knowledge, it has not been messed with. The most I messed with it was removing the intake pipe from the TB. Is there a way to test the AFM? (I assume that's the same as a MAF, just different terminology for it)

[q.man06]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

make sure you are checking the trouble codes

The check engine light isn't on during the time that the engine is running, but I will check and see if there is anything.

[q.man06]

Alright, so I checked the engine codes, and got code 43. "Starter Circuit Signal"

I assume that's what this bare wire is for, but where does it go?

The starter works just fine though--- what does this code mean?

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by q.man06

So, I double checked the cam timing, and it seems spot on with the crank. I did; however, find this:



[/IMG]

Those look like the O2 sensor wires... 1st one should probably go to the main O2 sensor (pre-cat) and the second one (Red w/ blue tracer and brown wires) to the secondary O2 sensor. Neither of those should matter for initial running of the motor, but it would be worth fixing them.

Does it run if you keep the Fp and B+ connection jumper in place?

Can you verify that the flap in the AFM moves freely?

-Charlie

PS. Nice timing belt.

PPS. A MAF and an AFM do the same function, but are different things. MAF = mass air flow sensor = hot wire (generally) air flow meter. AFM = vane air flow meter = flapper door style.

[q.man06]

Yeah I found out shortly after posting that the bare wire is for the pre cat O2 sensor, so I fixed that real quick.

Thank you for clarifying the difference between the MAF and AFM. Will moving the AFM by hand flap damage it? Reason I ask is my 03' maxima's TB butterfly valve will ultimately be ruined if moved without having power to the electric motor.

[q.man06]

Oh, and no, when the Fp and B+ are jumped the car doesn't do anything different.

['88 All-Trac]

I worked my AFM thoroughly after dousing it in some cleaner... Helped to clean up the movement quite a bit. These are very simple vehicles, my friend. All you'll do is... Well, nothing. It operates like a rheostat- as the flapper moves in/out, it changes the resistance through the sensor telling the ECU how much air the engine is sucking in so it can fuel it accordingly.

[q.man06]

I figured it was pretty simple seeing as it's from 1990, but you never know, and i'm not too familiar with AFM's. I'll clean that out tonight and see what happens. I'll triple check the timing too because a local mechanic also said to make sure it's not off a tooth.

Thanks for the input guys!

PS. How do I fix the code 43? Which wire and where around the starter should I be looking for it? I'm going to assume that the owner of the car broke a wire or something when he removed it.

PSS. Where does the secondary O2 sensor plug in at? I can't seem to find a male end to the plug...