87 Camry - No mechanic will touch (allegedly) self adjusting lifters!

[the desolate one]

How do you solve a problem that's SUPPOSED to be solving itself? You guys all know about rattling lifters. They make that rattling sound like tiny pieces of fast, vibrating tiny shards of metal against metal when you accelerate, and it's usually the lifters, which can be adjusted in many cars to make the rattling sound stop. I've taken the car to my usual mechanic, and to another mechanic as a second opinion, and they both said the same thing; 87 Camrys have self adjusting lifters that cannot be adjusted manually. Ok, if the lifters are to the point where they are rattling because they are out of adjustment, but cannot be manually adjusted because they are "self adjusting", then how am I supposed to get this problem fixed? Any suggestions? By the way, just in case anyone asks, YES, I make sure there is plenty of clean oil in the car, so I know that low oil levels, or dirty oil are not the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[white90dx]

Hmmm.... Can you run a tank of 91 octane gas and let us know if that makes the sound go away? I am guessing you are hearing pinging/knock and not the lifters. The Camry 3s-fe does not have a knock sensor and often pings when the cylinders get full of carbon. I had to run 89 on all mine to keep it to a minimum, even with the ignition advance set to factory specs.

The valve clearance is very much adjustable (with new shims) and not self adjusting (not hydraulic or anything). That said, it almost never goes out of adjustment. I have owned 3 3s-fe cars, not ever had a valve adjustment in 155k, 267k and 315k miles (mileage on each of thee cars at the max for that motor) - and all were fine in regards to valve clearance.

-Charlie

[the desolate one]

Originally Posted by white90dx

Hmmm.... Can you run a tank of 91 octane gas and let us know if that makes the sound go away? I am guessing you are hearing pinging/knock and not the lifters. The Camry 3s-fe does not have a knock sensor and often pings when the cylinders get full of carbon. I had to run 89 on all mine to keep it to a minimum, even with the ignition advance set to factory specs.

The valve clearance is very much adjustable (with new shims) and not self adjusting (not hydraulic or anything). That said, it almost never goes out of adjustment. I have owned 3 3s-fe cars, not ever had a valve adjustment in 155k, 267k and 315k miles (mileage on each of thee cars at the max for that motor) - and all were fine in regards to valve clearance.

-Charlie

It's definitely not a steady knock; I think I've heard it referred to as "pinging" as you said. Like I said, to ME, when I accelerate, it sounds like rattling, tiny metal pieces. The thing is, it doesn't make the sound when the engine is cold. It's only after the engine has been running for at least 20 minutes that it will make the sound, but only from a dead stop. Once I'm in the upper gears, it doesn't make the sound anymore. From red lights to acceleration is when I hear the sound the most. My tank is almost on empty. I'm going to try your method and fill it up with a tank full of 91 and see what happens. Also, you mentioned something about the cylinders getting full of carbon. Is that something that is worth getting taken care of at a shop, or will driving around with 91 eventually burn all the carbon out of the cylinders? If that is all it would take to permanently get rid of the rattle, then I'd be willing to do it.

[white90dx]

The sound of 'pinging' or 'knocking' is often described as the sound of BB's in a coffee can (though, a bit muffled). If it is bad, it will sound more 'clackity-clackity'. Pinging is most likely to happen when the engine is hot (like you describe), at low RPM (like you describe), and at high load (like you describe).

I got rid of the sound by just running 89 octane gas all the time. It doesn't fix the build-up, but it keeps you from hurting the engine. Its only a few % more expensive that 87 these days.

-Charlie

[the desolate one]

Originally Posted by white90dx

The sound of 'pinging' or 'knocking' is often described as the sound of BB's in a coffee can (though, a bit muffled). If it is bad, it will sound more 'clackity-clackity'. Pinging is most likely to happen when the engine is hot (like you describe), at low RPM (like you describe), and at high load (like you describe).

I got rid of the sound by just running 89 octane gas all the time. It doesn't fix the build-up, but it keeps you from hurting the engine. Its only a few % more expensive that 87 these days.

-Charlie

Hey, how about those octane bottles you can buy at auto part stores. If I were to fill up with 87, and at the same time put the pure octane into the tank, would that also get rid of the pinging? If you calculate it, it would be cheaper to gill up with 87 and add octane to each tank than to fill up with 89. Let me know if in YOUR opinion, using octane with 87 will do the trick. If not, then I'll start using 89 all the time. Let me know.

['88 All-Trac]

How is it cheaper to use a bottle of octane booster? I see it as some ~$3 for the bottle of stuff. We have, what, a 12 or 14 gallon tank? With the $0.10 difference per gallon of 89 vs 87, that comes to a ~$1.2 or $1.4 difference per gallon.

All of the octane booster I've ever been able to find is just JP5 or some other airplane fuel. Some of it is just ~120 octane racing/2-stroke/airplane fuel.

[71Corolla]

Has anyone ever Seafoamed a 3S-FE? My car does ping sometimes on hot days, I'm sure there is quite a lot of carbon build up. I'm iffy about using Seafoam through the intake.

['88 All-Trac]

I seafoamed both of mine. The older engine in the All-Trac smokes a little now but runs far far better than it did before. Be wary, sometimes carbon buildup will help to prevent leaks and smoking and blowby and all that shtick- So if it smokes a little after the seafoam treatment is complete, don't be surprised.

But it will run better if the directions are followed spot-on.

[71Corolla]

Good to know, I'm very tempted to do it on my car, especially considering the mileage.

[the desolate one]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

Has anyone ever Seafoamed a 3S-FE? My car does ping sometimes on hot days, I'm sure there is quite a lot of carbon build up. I'm iffy about using Seafoam through the intake.

Hey, what is seafoaming? I've never heard of that before. Is it some sort of additive anyone can add, or is it something that a professional has to do? Also, does it get rid of pinging? Please let me know!

[71Corolla]

Seafoam is an all-encompassing pure petroleum product. Just like it sounds, it is pure petroleum, a very thin version at that. It works by dissolving other petroleum based contaminants. You can use it in your gas tank, add it to your oil, or use engine vacuum to carefully draw in the liquid into the combustion chamber. Using this method, the Seafoam will serve to remove carbon build-up inside the engine. You have to be careful using it though, if you draw in too much liquid you can damage the engine, because liquids do not compress much. Your engine will likely belch out massive amounts of smoke if drawn in through a vacuum line.

I am leery of the vacuum intake method, because when Seafoam gets hot, it gets incredibly thin, and in theory can leech into seals and gaskets and potentially damage them. Others have reported good success with it, although there are negative stories as well. Use it with caution IMO.

[the desolate one]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

Seafoam is an all-encompassing pure petroleum product. Just like it sounds, it is pure petroleum, a very thin version at that. It works by dissolving other petroleum based contaminants. You can use it in your gas tank, add it to your oil, or use engine vacuum to carefully draw in the liquid into the combustion chamber. Using this method, the Seafoam will serve to remove carbon build-up inside the engine. You have to be careful using it though, if you draw in too much liquid you can damage the engine, because liquids do not compress much. Your engine will likely belch out massive amounts of smoke if drawn in through a vacuum line.

I am leery of the vacuum intake method, because when Seafoam gets hot, it gets incredibly thin, and in theory can leech into seals and gaskets and potentially damage them. Others have reported good success with it, although there are negative stories as well. Use it with caution IMO.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not good with cars, so that's something I wouldn't mes with, since it has the potential to mess up your car if you use it incorrectly.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by the desolate one

Hey, how about those octane bottles you can buy at auto part stores. If I were to fill up with 87, and at the same time put the pure octane into the tank, would that also get rid of the pinging? If you calculate it, it would be cheaper to gill up with 87 and add octane to each tank than to fill up with 89. Let me know if in YOUR opinion, using octane with 87 will do the trick. If not, then I'll start using 89 all the time. Let me know.

Secondarily to the point that '88 Alltrac made - those octane booster bottles boost octane by a few 'points' - as in 0.1 and 0.2 points of octane. So, add a bottle to 87 octane and you will have 87.2 octane. $1-$2 on a $40 tank of gas isn't much - try 91 octane and report back. Later you can drop back to 89 octane for regular driving.

-Charlie

['88 All-Trac]

And something I personally recommend if you've got a local municipal airport is to put a couple gallons of their fuel through it... Did it with the '88 and it ran tons better.

Seafoam will make your car smoke like you wouldn't believe. When I treated the '91, someone called to local fire department because they looked outside and saw the smoke... They thought my car had caught fire while I was working on it. It's nasty but it'll clean the engine up. There have been a few capped vacuum ports on all of the 3S-FE engines I've seen. I use a vacuum line sized to fit attached to one of these to seafoam my rigs- the vacuum at that point is low enough that it won't flood anything out.

Good luck, let us know if you're able to get the pinging sorted out.

[the desolate one]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

And something I personally recommend if you've got a local municipal airport is to put a couple gallons of their fuel through it... Did it with the '88 and it ran tons better.

Seafoam will make your car smoke like you wouldn't believe. When I treated the '91, someone called to local fire department because they looked outside and saw the smoke... They thought my car had caught fire while I was working on it. It's nasty but it'll clean the engine up. There have been a few capped vacuum ports on all of the 3S-FE engines I've seen. I use a vacuum line sized to fit attached to one of these to seafoam my rigs- the vacuum at that point is low enough that it won't flood anything out.

Good luck, let us know if you're able to get the pinging sorted out.

Wow, a LOT more posts have come in since the last time I checked the site. Glad to see so many people are willing to give advice! The only thing I've done so far since the last time I logged in is to fill the tank with 89. That was the last advice I got when I was on here, so that's what I've done. The next time the tank hits empty, I'll fill it with 91 and see if a couple full tanks of that will decrease the pinging. As far as airplane fuel, what about is it about it's constitution that makes it a viable fuel to run in a car? There in fact IS a small municipal airport only a few miles from where I live, but I want a good reason to walk in there requesting a couple gallons of their fuel.
As far as the seafoam, (properly) putting that stuff in my car is above my level of "expertise". I wouldn't wanna put the wrong amount in there, or put it in the wrong place. That's a remedy that I'll have to pass on.