91 Camry cv/output shaft seal replacement

[RolentoGrenades]

Hi. I had some differential gear whine I believe, so I filled up my differential with Dex/Merc and hoped that would solve it. The case seemed dry when I inspected the fill plug. Didn't have the tools to get the drain hex out. It was on incredibly tight. So I then drove around and noticed the differential fluid leaking from the CV/output shaft seal on the driver's side. I took the CV half shaft out (was pretty difficult). When I got it out, I noticed the spring ring around the seal was off completely. It's pictured below. Not sure if the force of me prying caused that or not. I took a photo of the old seal and the new one I bought. The one on the left is the new seal, the one on the right is the old one. Looks like one of them is wrong. They have different diameter and look. I got it from Advance Auto, so if anyone knows what the exact seal is at their site, I'd greatly appreciate a link so I can return this one.




One other quick question. When I finally removed the shaft, I noticed inside the hole that there is a bar going through the center. I took a pic of it too and pointed to it with a red arrow. I looked at a service manual and I believe this is the "pinion shaft" part of the drive pinion/differential. Will this be in the way when I slide the new CV shaft in? In other words, will it prevent me from sliding it in properly? Thanks.

[71Corolla]

The replacement seal you got is definitely not the right one. Either order one online or go to a Toyota dealer. It is easy to clip the seal when pulling out the axle, so that's probably how the spring got separated from the seal.

I can't answer your question about the "pinion shaft" but something looks odd in that picture to me, maybe it's just the lighting.

[Sturdavj]

Your engine & type of transmission will be helpful.

Mine is 1990, a 4 cylinder automatic, the seal on the left appears to be the one I used, for both sides.

The bar in the picture is OK, unless you pulled the left axle at the same time and that at times can present a problem.

[71Corolla]

The original seal has a splash shield molded into it, or whatever it's called, at least all the ones I've seen. Not to say the replacement seal won't work of course, but I would think that shield is there for a reason.

[Sturdavj]

71' is correct, I did overlook the splash shield.

I see too many seals in a day, they all bigin to look alike sorry

[Sturdavj]

You may the seal for the other end of the axle, looks more like a bearing HUB seal.... just a WAG (wild ass guess...)

[RolentoGrenades]

Thanks for the replies. No, didn't fool with the passenger side CV at all. It's still in place. I have shifted the car a few times though. Like from park to neutral and back when I was trying to get the blasted axle out.

Yeah, the splash guard is the major difference, as well as the different diameter. I'll pick up a new seal if I can resolve yet another problem I created for myself. I foolishly went to take the six bolts out of the bearing retainer (the ring and retainer around the inner CV joint/axle end). It wouldn't budge, so I forced it a little counter clockwise. Now it's totally jammed and off center from all six bolts! I'm trying to remove the differential case now, with the 13 bolts in it. It's really a pain getting it out. All the bolts are tiny 12mm which is no problem, but everything seems to be in the way. I've gotten about 10 of them off now and I'm at the transmission mount/cross member bolts. Will this even work, if I'm successful at getting the back case off to put the retainer back on correctly?

(Edit: 3s-fe engine, 4 cylinder dx 1991 Camry. Not sure of the exact transmission.)

['88 All-Trac]

That bar simply binds the spider gears in the differential together... I don't think you can see the pinion through those holes. Nothing to worry about and without it bad things will happen.

That seal looks far more like a wheel bearing seal than a CV seal. Use a wooden dowel and a rubber mallet to tap the bearing cap back into place.

[RolentoGrenades]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

That bar simply binds the spider gears in the differential together... I don't think you can see the pinion through those holes. Nothing to worry about and without it bad things will happen.

That seal looks far more like a wheel bearing seal than a CV seal. Use a wooden dowel and a rubber mallet to tap the bearing cap back into place.

Okay, that worked. Thanks!

Yeah, that seal is just wrong all around. I'll definitely go with one that looks exactly like the one I took out. One last thing. Have you ever replaced the drive pinion o-ring? I think it's recommended to replace that whenever these seals are replaced. But it seems like it's a real pain to get at.

['88 All-Trac]

I have never replaced such a seal, and don't have any odd leaks... In fact, anything pinion related sounds like a pita to me, but I've never had to work with one on a transverse-mounted drivetrain.

[RolentoGrenades]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

I have never replaced such a seal, and don't have any odd leaks... In fact, anything pinion related sounds like a pita to me, but I've never had to work with one on a transverse-mounted drivetrain.

Yes, they are very tricky in certain spots. Someone actually broke off my differential fins while working on mine at some point. It's a rebuilt transmission, so who knows. No leaks coming from that though.

I found a thread here on this forum:

[gen3] Grinding noise from A/T (car won't go).

This guy in Poland had a hell of a time with his '94 Camry with pretty much the exact same transmission as I have (I think). I have an a140e I believe. The two o-rings are just the one behind that bearing retainer and the dreaded one on the speedo that trashed that guy's ride. And like he said, I think you have to drop the whole tranny just to replace it. I'll have to recheck on mine. It sucks that happened to that guy after he went through all that b/s just because of one stupid o-ring.

I've noticed that mechanics these days just don't know what the hell the a140e/l are. They believe there is no "differential" and call it something different. But it's actually similar to the rear differential in a rear axle of a truck sorta'. Weird design, but mine has lasted for quite a while.

I now have the plunger end (not the entire half shaft) in the hole and it spins forward in drive, but also spins backwards. And also in reverse it will spin both ways. Should that be happening, or will it be completely different when I get everything back together and back on the ground? The parking brake works by the way. Locks it in both directions.

[Sturdavj]

I think you would be surprised if you knew how many 140E’s are still out their running, it is one tuff trany

I replaced my 90' 140E w/300k miles with an 88’ w/158k on it. I did not tear into my replacement trans, but I did however replace both CV axles & seals for both the wheel hubs as well as the transaxle seals.

I tore open my old trany trying to keep it alive (big mistake) instead of simply R&R-ing it (my final decision). I do not recall concern about the pinion O-Ring. I may have missed it .

Some of the fins on you inspection cover are shorter than others, and may appear broken. I am not sure but it might be for access to the fill plug (it’s been awhile since I had mine out)

[RolentoGrenades]

Wouldn't surprise me, dude. That 3SF-e is a great engine too. Heck, any engine/tranny combo from Toyota gen 2s seem to be good IMO. You can't complain when something gives you over 200k, let alone 300k like some people get. What else from back then can compete? Hondas and Volvos maybe, haha.

I finally got that differential drain plug off. Jesus h, was it tough. But it popped and I unscrewed and properly drained the differential. Letting it gravity bleed over night with the plunger end of the cv shaft in the drive hole so nothing will contaminate it. Picking up permatex #2 tomorrow to re-seal as many bolts on the carrier/fin case as I can. Then I'll also reseal the bearing retainer bolts just to be on the safe side. Not trying to get that thing out anymore, haha. Too afraid it'll damage something or offset the differential case assembly.

I still wonder why when I put the car in drive or reverse that the axle plunger end will spin both ways. But yet it locks in park. The other tire/axle is on the ground.

Originally Posted by Sturdavj

I think you would be surprised if you knew how many 140E’s are still out their running, it is one tuff trany

I replaced my 90' 140E w/300k miles with an 88’ w/158k on it. I did not tear into my replacement trans, but I did however replace both CV axles & seals for both the wheel hubs as well as the transaxle seals.

I tore open my old trany trying to keep it alive (big mistake) instead of simply R&R-ing it (my final decision). I do not recall concern about the pinion O-Ring. I may have missed it .

Some of the fins on you inspection cover are shorter than others, and may appear broken. I am not sure but it might be for access to the fill plug (it’s been awhile since I had mine out)

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by RolentoGrenades

I still wonder why when I put the car in drive or reverse that the axle plunger end will spin both ways. But yet it locks in park. The other tire/axle is on the ground.

Unless you have hydraulic pressure in the trans (ie, engine running), there is nothing holding the gear clutches tight. Also, remember that there is a torque converter that allows the engine and trans to spin at different speeds (also needs fluid pressure to lock). That's all normal.

In park, the parking pawl is in place and will keep the output of the trans from spinning.

-Charlie

[Sturdavj]

Thanks Charlie, I was waiting for you to jump in. I knew it to be normal but I did have/know enough information to explain why.