Potential gains with a header? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

'88 All-Trac · 09-21-2011, 05:18 PM

I see there are quite a few headers for the 5sfe and 3sge engines- has anyone here actually purchased one and used one? What gains/losses could I expect to see with a simple 4-1 header?

I'm all for high-flow exhaust; I figure I may as well toss a 5s header on as soon as continue to run my stocker with a rodded out cat. They certainly look nicer.

white90dx · 09-22-2011, 11:42 AM

I wouldn't expect a whole lot of gains with a header... That said, I did have one on my first Camry (the original white '90 DX 5-speed). Maybe it would be 5hp? I have never seen a dyno plot of one, and I can't say that I felt much of a difference in speed. Headers are generally done for high-end power, but the rest of the 3s-fe doesn't work well at the high end.

If you do get one, I highly suggest you do something for heat management. Ceramic coating, wrapping, heat shielding, etc. It is important to keep that heat out of the engine bay.

-Charlie

camrygt4 · 09-22-2011, 01:38 PM

I got a little better top end out my old 2wd camry but not much. My alltrac was the slowest car I had ever owned when it was stock, If wasn't going the 3sgte route a 5sfe long block swap makes a huge difference and its cheep easy and reliable.

'88 All-Trac · 09-23-2011, 02:28 AM

Any wiring need to be done for the 5s swap? I'm really looking for mileage at the moment- all of my experience with headers (lawl my Tracker with a 1.6) there was a respectable increase in mileage due to the increase in exhaust gas extraction from the cylinders.

I'm almost tempted to get the cams reground and the internals balanced/etc. just to see what I can coax out of the 3s. It runs pretty good up to about 6500rpm as it is, and then the air is too thin for it to do much else.

The All-Trac will get a 3sgte when the stock 3s finally dies.

white90dx · 09-23-2011, 12:16 PM

If you do just the 5s bottom end, you probably don't need to worry about wiring. If you do a complete long block, it might not work. I don't think you would get any extra mileage from swapping the long block.

In my experience, the headers don't do anything for mileage one way or the other. I'd have to go back to my 10-year old records to figure that out for sure though.

-Charlie

camrygt4 · 09-23-2011, 05:50 PM

I swaped a long block out of a 1996 camry into 1987 camry there was no wireing involved as long as you use the 3sfe intake and distibutor, I did have to remove the balance shaft to get the 3sfe oil pan to fit and you will need an 8 bolt fly wheel. I dont know about milage but when we were done, that car would slap integras around all day long.

'88 All-Trac · 09-24-2011, 07:14 PM

And the stock fuel system/etc. was enough for the larger engine? I'm not even sure why I'm looking... This engine only has some 90k miles on it- hence me more wanting to do external modification than replacement/etc... But I might go 5s block with the All-Trac. That poor old thing is worse for wear... Be a good way to buy time for the 3SGTE swap... And my brothers 6th gen celica with a 5s gets awesome mileage.

camrygt4 · 09-25-2011, 01:53 PM

Stock fule system is more than capable.
If you are just biding your time till your 3sgte swap
and the motor you have runs great I would just leave the 3sfe alone, it is really difficult to see any noticeable power increas out of that engine unless you spend alot of money. Id throw a k&n filter on it and call it good unless the 3sgte is a really long way off than I would still do the 5sfe long block but thats just me.

'88 All-Trac · 09-25-2011, 04:39 PM

The performance build was more for our 2wd- which will never go 3sgte. The stocker in the All-Trac is quite worn and smokes bad. The PO abused it far more than it deserved... And it will not live long enough for me to be able to afford the 3sgte swap- and I can get a local 5s for $200.

camrygt4 · 09-25-2011, 07:05 PM

Do it, the 5sfe wont be a rocket but it will be a big difference over the 3sfe.

'88 All-Trac · 09-26-2011, 12:01 AM

Don't need a rocket at this point, just a reliable dd.

white90dx · 09-26-2011, 12:38 PM

5s-fe long block won't fit into an Alltrac without modification. The block webbing on the back hits the transfer case and it is missing a few mounting holes for the transfer case stiffener...

It sounds like it works great in then 2wd cars though...

-Charlie

'88 All-Trac · 09-26-2011, 01:23 PM

Would it be at all possible to trim the webbing and drill/tap holes for the stiffener? I'm not one much for replacing an engine to get stock results- and a low-mileage 3sfe can not be found out here... 5s is much more common in good condition... And modification does not frighten me. My other car is running a made-at-home solid axle swap.

camrygt4 · 09-26-2011, 05:10 PM

I know it can be done iv seen a 5sfe in in alltrac camy and st185 cellica, Thats all i have to say about that.

white90dx · 09-26-2011, 06:34 PM

Yup. It can be done. Search on the alltrac.net forums for the 5s-gte hybrid engine and what it takes to do it. The Camry Alltrac manual trans is similar enough that all the same stuff needs to get done.

If you have completed a custom solid axle swap, you should be able to do it, no problem.

-Charlie