Going to look at a '91 All-trac tomorrow..

[celica-fiend]

Hi all..

Im going to have a look at a 91 Camry All-trac Automatic tomorrow.. ~230,000KM on it..

Anything in particular to look out for? Any important parts that are really really hard to find or swap from another vehicle?

It wont be an issue before next year some time .. but how involved is swapping a 5 speed setup into an auto one of these? Parts sourcing .. etc..

thanks,

Brett

[white90dx]

Make sure the auto trans is in good shape, and make sure you use the correct (Toyota Type-T) transmission fluid if you do a fluid drain/refill on it (if you get it). Rear struts are a dealer only unless you get expensive aftermarket performance suspension made for the Celica Alltrac.

Otherwise, most parts are east to find and many swap over from the FWD car.

-Charlie

['88 All-Trac]

Some time this winter I will be doing a writeup on mounting stock Celica All-Trac rear struts, as well, so you don't have to worry too hard about that.

A manual swap wouldn't be too bad, I would think, though I suspect that Charlie (white90dx above me) would be able to tell you about that better than I can- he is in the middle of a 3S-GTE swap with his formerly automatic All-Trac.

[celica-fiend]

Welp.. bought it..

It was off one of those standard crappy little car lots.. guy had it listed online for 2000, a sign in the back window for 1300..

Took a buddy who's a factory tech for a couple different brands with me .. it needs a rad.. but the timing belt has been done.. bit of a clunk on accell/deaccel from the rear that I suspect might be the diff mount.. if its the same as all-trac celica stuff..

struts arent hosed.. but are definately worn.. no bad noises from any of the cv's or the center diff..

After taking it around the block a few times I came back and told the guy 1k, as is where is .. and he didnt fight me at all. damn.. shoulda said 1k taxes in, hah..

Silver on blue interior.. seems to be a stripper model, cloth interior, manual windows, manual seats etc.. still has the factory tape deck, heh..

Fenders still available new in the aftermarket? I could use a couple front fenders and one or two rear arches to make it pretty.. otherwise its solid and in nice shape..

was '91 the last year for the all-trac in Camry form? the centre diff.. simply a mechanical 50/50 lock? or is it viscous?

cheers,

Brett

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by celica-fiend

Welp.. bought it..

It was off one of those standard crappy little car lots.. guy had it listed online for 2000, a sign in the back window for 1300..

Took a buddy who's a factory tech for a couple different brands with me .. it needs a rad.. but the timing belt has been done.. bit of a clunk on accell/deaccel from the rear that I suspect might be the diff mount.. if its the same as all-trac celica stuff..

struts arent hosed.. but are definately worn.. no bad noises from any of the cv's or the center diff..

After taking it around the block a few times I came back and told the guy 1k, as is where is .. and he didnt fight me at all. damn.. shoulda said 1k taxes in, hah..

Silver on blue interior.. seems to be a stripper model, cloth interior, manual windows, manual seats etc.. still has the factory tape deck, heh..

Fenders still available new in the aftermarket? I could use a couple front fenders and one or two rear arches to make it pretty.. otherwise its solid and in nice shape..

was '91 the last year for the all-trac in Camry form? the centre diff.. simply a mechanical 50/50 lock? or is it viscous?

cheers,

Brett

I paid a lot more for mine a few years back, but it was low miles (92k), LE trim, no rust and had a perfect interior with shiny paint... I have since put about 50k miles on it.

Rear clunk could be the diff mount (easy) or internal wear. You'll be able to tell with a quick inspection.

Just leave the suspension then - I can help with performance upgrades if you are interested. Any problems on the front end (control arm bushings, mainly) can be replaced with 2WD stuff (same parts other than springs).

I thought the Alltracs only came as a DX or LE in '91, but I could be wrong. If you have some cloth on the door panel, its a DX, if full vinyl, its a base model.

Front fenders are easily available, rear fender skins can be found on eBay (I think, haven't looked recently and don't need too - yay California!).

'91 was the last year for an Alltrac Camry in the US. I believe the Camry was available in Japan with AWD through the 4th gen... The center diff on the automatic trans has an 'auto-lock' feature that you should just leave enabled (button on dash next to steering column). It stays as a normal open diff until slip is detected and then locks the diff. The manual trans for the Alltrac Camry has a similar open diff, but has a button to lock it manually (leave off during normal operation). On either trans you can disconnect the rear drivetrain using a lever/switch on the transfer case (not recommended).

Post up some pictures! And fix that rust - keep it on the road!

-Charlie

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

Some time this winter I will be doing a writeup on mounting stock Celica All-Trac rear struts, as well, so you don't have to worry too hard about that.

The rear struts will be a direct bolt-on replacement. Just swap the springs if you want the same ride height.

-Charlie

[Zembonez]

Pretty hard to beat that for a grand. Post up some pics as you get it into shape.

[celica-fiend]

Yeah, we took it directly to my shop, rather than the driveway outside.. as I wasnt sure how long the rad was going to hold together.. heh..

This is the newest Toyota Ive owned yet.. and certainly the one with the most available parts cars.. Already confirmed the jobbers have a rad for me for ~160 and have emailed a couple people with parts cars, hoping they're silver and have rust-free fenders..

Hopefully get the rad in this week and then see what other little issues the shady lot was hiding on me..

Brett
72 Celica, 73 Hilux, 80 Cressida, 87 Corolla GTS <- Current stash of toyotas.

[white90dx]

I bet they don't have the correct radiator. The Alltrac radiator is a dual core (like the V6) but with the 4-cylinder end-tanks. I ran a standard 4-cylinder radiator without trouble though...

-Charlie

['88 All-Trac]

Originally Posted by white90dx

The rear struts will be a direct bolt-on replacement. Just swap the springs if you want the same ride height.

-Charlie

I apologize. I worded that incorrectly- I'm going to be swapping in Celica struts at all 4 corners (and mounts/etc. My mounts are trashed and my springs either sag a bunch or are shorter springs. It does ride awfully firm but oscillates pretty bad. PO was gonna do some performance stuff to it, I read here on TN...) So anyway, was gonna do struts and mounts at all 4 corners. Not sure if the fronts will be the same or not.

I recall reading that the Celica coil-overs needed some modification of the hubs- so why do the stock struts bolt in? Or is it that the fronts need modification and the rears don't?

I'm trying to find a set of stock-height "sport-type" springs to go with the struts. They're about a 1.5"-2" shorter strut, right?

Sorry for the hi-jack. I just figure All-Trac tech should go with All-Trac tech... Hopefully I asked some questions the OP had as well.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

I apologize. I worded that incorrectly- I'm going to be swapping in Celica struts at all 4 corners (and mounts/etc. My mounts are trashed and my springs either sag a bunch or are shorter springs. It does ride awfully firm but oscillates pretty bad. PO was gonna do some performance stuff to it, I read here on TN...) So anyway, was gonna do struts and mounts at all 4 corners. Not sure if the fronts will be the same or not.

I recall reading that the Celica coil-overs needed some modification of the hubs- so why do the stock struts bolt in? Or is it that the fronts need modification and the rears don't?

I'm trying to find a set of stock-height "sport-type" springs to go with the struts. They're about a 1.5"-2" shorter strut, right?

Sorry for the hi-jack. I just figure All-Trac tech should go with All-Trac tech... Hopefully I asked some questions the OP had as well.

If you are using stock ST185 spring/strut assemblies, it will be mostly bolt-on. For the fronts, you will need to modify the holes in the shock towers just a bit (the bolt-circle on the strut top is just a bit smaller on the Celica, and also rotated ~30*), and you will have to just cut off or bend the brake line mounts out of the way and zip tie the brake lines on. They bolt to the hub just fine. ST165 specific struts have smaller bolt holes on the strut bottoms, but otherwise are the same as the ST185 in dimensions.

Aftermarket full coilover replacements (like I used) will be shorter. They have less total travel and need to be shorter so that they are in the correct range of the strut travel at the designed ride height. Stock assemblies should be effectively the same length as the stock Camry stuff. You won't find stiffer springs with the same ride height unless you go custom.

-Charlie

[celica-fiend]

Boy .. as I get into newer cars, the radiators get really realllllly cheesy..

I -hate- plastic tank rads.. and, yes, you're right.. its a single row, plastic tank, aluminum core.. tiny thin little thing, hah.. not used to em at all..

ah well.. lower rad hose on its way, probably tuck into it tomorrow after work..

cheers,

Brett

[celica-fiend]

Oh, Ive been meaning to ask, Charlie..

As, in your suspension install, the ST185 camber plates dont really work as camber plates (being that 30 deg off) .. did you consider just running the stock camry top plates? will they fit the celica struts?

Any reason, other than complexity of getting things all lined up properly, you didnt redrill the holes in your strut towers to match the celica plates and then have camber adjustment?

cheers,

Brett

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by celica-fiend

Oh, Ive been meaning to ask, Charlie..

As, in your suspension install, the ST185 camber plates dont really work as camber plates (being that 30 deg off) .. did you consider just running the stock camry top plates? will they fit the celica struts?

Any reason, other than complexity of getting things all lined up properly, you didnt redrill the holes in your strut towers to match the celica plates and then have camber adjustment?

cheers,

Brett

For aftermarket camber plates, you can just swap the left and right sides (keep the struts on the correct side, just swap the top hats), and you can get additional camber+caster when they are adjusted.

Stock Camry top hats might fit the stock Celica struts, but that's not what I installed. But stock for stock, it doesn't matter - the top plates have a bearing plat between the rubber isolator and the spring seat, so the 'direction' of the top mount doesn't matter. It only matters on adjustable top hats.

As for re-drilling the strut towers, there is a stiffening plate on the top that requires a specific top hat mounting orientation (this strut tower is already modified):



-Charlie

['88 All-Trac]

I was clearing my shelf off today and discovered I possess an owner's manual for a '91 All-Trac. I recall finding it in the junkyard (there was an All-Trac there about three weeks before I found the manual) and I was pulling tail lights for my '88 when I found the manual in the trunk of a 2wd way the hell on the other side of the lot from that other All-Trac.

It's yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. All the pages are there, but the first couple are in a bad way... (One of them has fallen out, it's generally an old manual.) Just thought you might be interested.

Sorry for the bump, guys, but I tried a pm on this laptop and it ran me in circles.

Would it not be possible to weld in a ring of say 1/16 or 1/8 sheet steel as a new stiffening ring to redrill for the adjustable Celica top hats? This doesn't apply to me as I'm going to be going for stocker-style stuff.