1989 Camry LE, no start/hard start

[Highway_Star]

This has been happening intermittantly for over three years and it's driving me nuts.

Sometimes when the car has been sitting for a day or longer, the starter will click but won't crank.

It used to not make the click (the soleniod didn't engage the flywheel) but since I've replaced the battery, replaced the starter, rebuilt the neutral safty switch (filed down a groove that had worn in the copper contacts and repacked the housing with di-electric grease), put a new terminal clamp on the positive terminal, (all done in the last 5 months) it always engages the flywheel. But it won't crank the engine on the first try.

After several tries, I can get it to crank but it's a very hard start and I have to keep the starter motor turning and opening the throttle to get the engine going, and once it runs on it's own, it's rough for about 30 seconds and there is white-ish smoke coming out of the tail pipe. It smells like unburned fuel, so I thought there was a badly leaking injector and I replaced all 4 of the 22 y.o. factory installed units (didn't fix the starting problem, but the engine makes more power and runs smoother with fresh ones).

It's still making gas smelling smoke at start up, so yesterday I went to the junkyard and bought 2 cold start injectors (in case one was bad) because that's the only thing left I can think of that could leak fuel. They are soaking in throttle body cleaner right now.

This is my mom's car, and until I permently fix this intermittant (i hate that word) problem, she's borrowing my Subaru.

[Doctor J]

After the engine cooled down the cold start injection time switch turns on the cold start injector when you have key at start, thus flooding the engine.
(But if you crank continuously, the cold start injection switch turns off injector after about 5 seconds)
The rebuild starter may have main contacts in the solenoid switch not parallel to each other; sometimes this may be caused when the nut for a battery cable on the solenoid is turned with a lot of force.
I could blame the rebuild starter as well as now their quality “sucks” (figure of speech)

[Highway_Star]

I've rebuilt the original starter several times and each time I made sure the contacts were parallel to get the most contact (didn't help). I've noticed the gauge of wiring from the battery to the starter is pretty thin compared to other cars I've owned (a V8 Crown Vic and a diesel Benz) it looks like a 10 or 12 gauge, so I was wondering, would running a 2 or 0 gauge cable directly from the battery (bypassing the fuseable link block) to the starter and an equal gauge ground wire back to the negative terminal help?

I'm going to put in the "new" cold start injector tomorrow afternoon (it's been soaking in throttle body cleaner), and if that doesn't fix the hard start because the injector switch is bad, where besides the dealership can I buy a new one? I've already looked at Rockauto(dot)com.

[Mike Gerber]

I believe the cold start injector time switch is a dealer only part. If you find an afterrmarket source for one, please post back here so everyone can benefit.

I would be leary of getting one from a salvage yard since they go out frequently, chances are the ones in salvage yards aren't any better than the one currently on your car. You can test the resistance of your current one while it is still on the car. You will need a digital volt/ohmeter and the specs from any manual.

Mike

[Camry84]

Also check engine ground connections (I think there are a couple).
Dirt/ Oil/ rust or loose connections there can be problematic when the starter draws a lot of current.

[Highway_Star]

I can't find the specs for the cold start switch, it's not in the big Chiltons manual I have. Anyone know what they are?

I've installed the new cold start injector, and it's resistance is within 2.4-2.5 ohms (what the book says is ok).

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by Highway_Star

I can't find the specs for the cold start switch, it's not in the big Chiltons manual I have. Anyone know what they are?

Points open above 35C (95F)

2-1: Approx. 20-40 ohms below 30C (86F)
2-1: Approx. 40-60 ohms above 40C (104F)
2-ground: 20-80 ohms

[Camry84]

This really sounds like multiple problems.
Is the battery still in good shape and well charged? (Might throw a charger on the "new" battery since it sounds like you may not have driven it much lately for a good distance)

The difficult to start problem and idle "rough for about 30 seconds and there is white-ish smoke coming out of the tail pipe. It smells like unburned fuel" ...
makes me wonder if you might have a bad Oxygen Sensor (this is what my car is doing currently, although I haven't noticed the smoke, it's flooding when I try to start it. I'm quite sure my O2 sensor is bad and am replacing it as soon as the new one gets here)

Best of luck in pinpointing the problem(s) ... you'll get it figured out.

[Highway_Star]

The o2 sensor is less than 40,000 miles old, but too much gas can kill them early, so I'll keep that in mind if everything else doesn't work.

I checked the resistance of the timing switch, and it read 29.8 ohms cold between 2-1 (same reading when 2 was grounded). I also took cold start injector off the manifold, plugged up the hole with the old one while the new one sat on a paper towel (still connected to the fuel rail) while I cranked the car, it produced a nice mist of gas, so it's working properly.

I found another problem, I decided to check the spark plug gap while I was under the hood. When I tried to pull them out, the socket and two plug were coated in oil. Some how the #1 and #3 tubes are getting oil inside them and I know I didn't spill any down them when I poured the oil into the crankcase. And the plug tips themselves were black and indicative of either a really rich fuel mix or they are burning oil that is getting past the plug threads. How are the plug tubes attached to the heads, are the press fitted in, screwed in, or welded in? and do they contact an oil gallery?

[dem2757]

3sfe spark plug tube oil leaks

they are screwed in for the 3sfe

[88 LE]

I found a service bulletin from Toyota about 3S-FE hard starting/long cranking time.

The cold start timing switch was revised/modified for higher operating temp. Previous = 35C (95F) and new = 45C (113F). Not sure when Toyota revised it, but the service bulletin is dated 10-27-89.

It appiles to 87, 88, 89 Camry and Celica w/3S-FE.


Camry/Celica w/3S-FE. Production date, 8608-8808. Prev P/N = 89462-30011. New P/N = 89462-20050

Camry/Celica w/3S-FE (Japan produced). Production date, 8808-8908 (TMC). Prev P/N = 89462-20030. New P/N = 89462-20060

Camry w/3S-FE (U.S. produced). Production date, 8807-8908 (TMM). Prev P/N = 89462-20030. New P/N = 89462-20060

[Highway_Star]

Arrrrrg!!!
It's still doing it!

The only thing left do to start replacing the wiring, because that's the only part of the starting system I haven't replaced.

[MCV2O]

Try this: The intermittent no crank- no click condition

Starter relay

... in the Stickies

[Highway_Star]

The starter relay is working fine, so the info inthe stickie wouldn't help, but thanks any way.

Found something that maybe, possibly, could be the cause of the no-start:



My mortal enemy, CORROSION! So we meet again.

Went to the dealership for a new one, but they don't have a replacement positive cable listed in their computers, the guy at the parts counter said it's considered part of the wiring harness (I did have to cut off the electrical tape and the plastic sheathing from the harness to get the cable out). Autozone, Napa, and Weaver don't have a replacement cable either.
I went to the junkyard and bought the terminal end off a wreck, undid the crimp and used new cable and a rented heavy-duty crimping tool to make a new one. I put new sheathing over the wiring harness and used a lot of electrical tape to keep it looking original, but I left out the battery cable and just zip tied it to the outside of the harness so I could remove it easily in case I need to replace it again.

It starts fine now, but it always seems fine after I do something, I'll just have to wait and see if the problem comes back.

[dem2757]

damn that was toasted