84 Camry Fuel Injector Replacement

[Camry84]

Hi All,

First post here.
I have a couple of Toyotas, an 84 Camry with a 2S-E (176000 miles) and a 94 Pickup with a 22RE. Used to have an 84 Pickup with 22RE.

Yup, I like Toyotas!
My 84 Camry has been sitting for about 2 years.
I ran it out of gas and it has never run the same since.
I figure it must be gunk from the bottom of the fuel tank that caused the problem so recently I did the following:

1) Added fresh 92 octane fuel
2) Replaced the fuel filter (Toyota OEM)
3) Cleaned the EGR valve (it had totally clogged vacuum line)
4) Cleaned Vacuum Modulator Filters (not bad but slightly dirty)
5) Removed and generally cleaned Cold Start Valve (didn't check spray pattern but Ohms check out and valve opens/ closes fine)
6) Removed and totally cleaned the throttle body (lots of carbon behind butterfly valve and in vacuum ports, also cleaned air chamber)
7) Ran Sea-Foam through the booster vacuum and through pvc
8) Cleaned PVC (was fine but flushed with throttle body cleaner)
9) Replaced plugs (NGK Platnum)
10) Replaced the plug wires (Beck-Arnley)
11) Replaced the distributor cap (Beck-Arnley)
12) Replaced the rotor (Beck-Arnley)
13) Timed at 5deg BTDC per Toyota Repair Manual
14) Inspected Distributor Wiring and Coil Resistance & Voltages (Advance weights cleaned with throttle body cleaner)
15) Vacuum lines inspected and checked for leaks (Using throttle body cleaner)
16) Checked Cold Start Timer Switch and it Ohms out OK (Checked Cold and Hot)

Notable Problems after doing the above:

A) Problem adjusting Idle (Idle adjust screw doesn't have a smooth effect on increasing idle speed ... can't adjust idle much over 600-700 rpm, spec is 700 rpm)
B) Car is lethargic starting from stop sign (unless I rev the engine slightly)
C) Once car is going, tends to hesitate or stumble slightly (uneven acceleration)
D) Highway speeds fine except seems to bog slightly on hills and passing

Notable Improvements:

E) Once above 1500 rpms car runs great!
F) Acceleration above 1500 rpms is what should be expected except hills
G) Highway speeds, can use 5th gear fine on level or downhill

Bottom Line:

Could be my Cold Start Injector but thinking it is more likely injectors are fouled or dirty ... ?
I got a set of Denso rebuilt fuel injectors for around $100. Also got a new Denso O2 sensor and will be installing both this week.

I'll keep you all posted on progress and notable improvements.

UPDATE#1: After driving the car more and reading up on symptoms I'm pretty sure the Oxygen Sensor is the major problem.
UPDATE#2: New Denso, O2 Sensor installed with 70% improvement in accelerating from a stop, seems to run better in general however idle is still rough and it's still bogging on the hills. Hopefully the cleaned fuel injectors will take care of the other 30%. (To rainy to put them in right now).
UPDATE#3: Injectors replaced with a refurbished set
UPDATE#4: I unplugged the Mass Air Flow connection while the car was running the other day and it made quite a difference (didn't run near as well as with it plugged in) so I think it's doing it's job and working well.
UPDATE#5: Fuel Injectors replaced, car is running much better now!

Thanks
Dave

[Lee250]

Check to see if the mass airflow moves freely. Should be smooth with no stuck places. It can be taken apart and cleaned. Cars over here always have that problem.

[Camry84]

I'll check it out Lee,

Sure would be easier than replacing the injectors and worth a look.
There's a section on it in the manual that I passed by, I'd better look at that again.
Sooner or later I'll find the problem if I just keep at it ... the car is running much better than it did but something is keeping it from running like it really should.

I've thought about the catalytic converter or O2 sensor being the problem also but no "Check Engine" light ... just have a feeling that bad gas in the bottom of the tank is a direct cause.
Tough tracking these things down sometimes.

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated!

[Lee250]

Also is your distributor electronic or vacume advance? Me and my brother both have 86s and there electronic and the sticker on the hood says 10 degrees timing with the jumper wire in place.

[Camry84]

Hi Lee,

She's got a vacuum advance and spring loaded weights inside (I think these have some kind of effect on timing). Hood sticker says 5 deg BTDC and so does my factory repair manual. Electronic pickup (no points).

Dave

[Camry84]

I went ahead and ordered a matched set of reconditioned Nippondenso injectors. (set is less than $100 plus $12 shipping and no core charge)
At 176000 miles they could probably stand to be ultrasonically cleaned, backflushed and checked for flow rate. Might even help the gas mileage.
I'll let you know how it goes and if I see any major improvements.
If possible I'll take some cell phone photos and document the process to share with others here.

I'll check that mass airflow also.

Dave

Update: 10/24/11
I thought my MPG was going to be disappointing but I jsut checked it and I'm only getting 14.6 MPG (rural driving) right now.
I have a feeling the new fuel injectors will make a world of difference.
I know this car has gotten up to 42 MPG (highway driving) in it's earlier days so my goal is to get as close as possible to that in the future.
*** Dang: Can dirty/ clogged fuel injectors possibly make that much of a difference?

[Camry84]

I took the Camry for a 300 mile drive today.
Still cannot adjust my idle speed well.
The car runs nicely on level highway in 5th gear but:
When I come to a hill there is a definite lack of power even when shifting down to 4th and 3rd.

It acts like the engine is running too rich.
Difficult starting in the morning also acts like it's too rich.

While driving today the CEL came on whenever the car felt like it was bogging down. If I let up on the accelerator a bit the light would go out after a few seconds. If I was careful not to allow the engine to bog then the light would stay out.

*************************************************
When I got home I checked the Error Code and got 5 blinking lights.
I think this points to the O2 Sensor (For an 84 Camry 2.0L).

It seems logical that a malfunctioning O2 Sensor could be telling the ECU that the engine is running lean (even when it's not) and therefor compensating by dumping in more fuel. True?

Do I need to reset my CEL now? (Do I just disconnect the battery to do this?)
*************************************************

Got my refurbished Fuel Injectors in the mail today.
Whether they have anything to do with my current problem I don't really know but are bound to help if everything else is working well.

O2 Sensors are not cheap so I don't want to get one if it doesn't need it, do you think a bad O2 Sensor would make the engine bog down when under load?

I wonder if the Error Code is an indication that the O2 sensor is bad itself or just something related.

Haven't checked the Catalytic Converter out yet but I'm hoping it will not have to be replaced. If I had the resources I'd just replace both the Cat and the O2 sensor.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by Camry84

It seems logical that a malfunctioning O2 Sensor could be telling the ECU that the engine is running lean (even when it's not) and therefor compensating by dumping in more fuel. True?

Correct.

When a O2 sensor is functioning correctly its always switching between 0-1V. IIRC 0V is lean and 1V is rich. The ECU then compensates by adding or subtracting fuel.

As for diagnosing a bad O2, the only way I know of is using a scope and looking at the voltage and waveform to see if its switching. Propane can also be injected to drive the mixture rich and see if the O2 reacts to it.

Do I need to reset my CEL now? (Do I just disconnect the battery to do this?)

Disconnect the battery or pull ECU/EFI fuse.

Haven't checked the Catalytic Converter out yet but I'm hoping it will not have to be replaced.

A bad / clogged cat can cause bogging issues under load.

[Camry84]

Went ahead and ordered an O2 sensor, the more I drive the car, the more I can tell it's flooding and the ECU is not metering the fuel properly. I notice when I aggressively accelerate (higher RPMs and lower gears) the car runs nicely and has lots of pep, so I don't think the Cat is plugged. The more I read about bad O2 sensor symptom, the more it fits just what the car is doing.

Of course I couldn't stop at just purchasing an O2 sensor, I had to get an Intake/ Exhaust gasket, valve cover gasket and fuel filter while I was at it so I can put my refurbished fuel injectors in too. (Really want my MPGs back)

Couldn't stop there either, decided to get some fog lights too (since I live rural in rainy Washington and darn sure need them in the Fall and Winter months).

I forgot how much fun it is to drive this car, I want to get back it in top shape since it's in such good condition already. I'll post a pic or two when I get a chance.

Thanks for the input 88 LE, it's all appreciated!

[Camry84]

Got my fuel injectors in today, O2 sensor the other day.

Ordered the wrong gasket for the intake manifold so I can't try it out yet.
All went smooth, just went about it like the manual describes and no major issues.
Dropped the injector rail spacers numerous times but the old injectors pulled right out and the new ones pushed in fine with a little persuasion.
Torqued the rail bolts to 9ft/lbs per manual and I doubt they will leak or give me any more problems.

Cleaned the Air Chamber and Intake Manifold out real well, It wasn't really as dirty as I expected ... guess that Seafoam really does work quite well.

I'm anxious to get the Intake back on to see if this takes care of my lack of power. If not I'll be checking my timing belt and catalytic converter next.

Dang, this little 84 Camry is going to think it's a 2012 with all this work, hope she pays me back with some great gas mileage and trouble free rides.

I'll keep you all posted on how it goes once I get another manifold gasket for it and put 'er back together.

[simple monkey]

I agree with checking the cat. My corolla had no top end power and got crappy mileage until I changed the cat. (will be better even if you decide to gut it ).
best of luck.

[Camry84]

"will be better even if you decide to gut it"

I may just end up doing that, this car is parting me to a slow death right now ... worth every penny, mind you, but as long as it won't hurt the car to rod the cat I may have to. Can always throw one in later if I want too.
Fortunately no emissions inspections here.

I imagine between the throttle body, air chamber cleaning, complete tune up, filter and oil change, fuel injectors, O2 sensor and gutted cat it's bound to give me some MPGs in return.

Thanks for your imput, it's appreciated!

['88 All-Trac]

My '91 showed all of these same symptoms. Ended up spending some $600-700 in replacement bits before I discovered the cat was no good. Admittedly, the other stuff did need to be replaced but I still couldn't beat 24mpg. Gutted the cat, all of a sudden I could pull 38mpg highway.

[Camry84]

Thanks for the encouraging note 88 All-Trac, yes, everything I've done was needed anyway so I don't feel any loss there at all, but I sure will be glad when she's working right again. It's been a long road to tracking things down.

It's tough to know just what is causing these types of symptoms, a lot of malfunctions give similar symptoms and I think often it's multiple things in older cars like this one.

I've been going on the assumption that since I ran it out of gas and it hasn't run right since that the problem is with fuel flow, atomization etc.

May well be the cat though, I'll know immediately if it's the fuel injectors or not when my new gasket arrives. Even if it's not the injectors then I think they needed cleaning anyway, with 176000 on 'er it's bound to help some.

The greatest thing about this whole experience is that I've managed to get to know my Camry again and now know much more about it than in the past.

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement!

[simple monkey]

Does your car have coolant running through the throttle body via some sort of idle air control valve? My corolla had a tiny bubble in the coolant there and the idle would bounce up and down.
Also, staying persistent with these problems will help figure them out faster. There is a lot of encouragement in this thread, and it looks like you are putting forth a good amount of effort to make this work. Just make sure you keep up the good work and this will get better soon; everyone likes to be told they are doing a good job.