How rare are the Camry All Tracs?

[boostedm10]

I am just wondering , I have 3, two autos and a manual. All of them are 1989's. I cant seem to find production numbers but people say they are rare. I do know they are few and far between but would like to officially know how rare they are. Thank you very much of any information you can give me.

Also, how does the center diff work on the five speed cars? I know you can lock the center diff to create a 50/50 split between the front and rear axles but can the diff do it itself without locking the center diff? I just thought it was similar to the autos where the center diff will lock if it sees differences between the front and wheel axles.

['88 All-Trac]

Depends on the All-Trac. The Camry All-Trac 5sp has a standard electric engage/disengage differential. It will not function automatically. The Celica All-Trac (GT4) has a fluid coupling for a center differential, so that the front and rear are always locked together but can slip if necessary.

As far as rarity... Maybe see if you can hunt down production numbers. I'm shocked to hear you own three. It took me a little over a year of trolling Craigslist in a ~400-mile radius of my home to find one. Admittedly, a second one popped up less than two weeks later but was white (bad mix with the mountains) and needed new tires.

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

Depends on the All-Trac. The Camry All-Trac 5sp has a standard electric engage/disengage differential. It will not function automatically. The Celica All-Trac (GT4) has a fluid coupling for a center differential, so that the front and rear are always locked together but can slip if necessary.

As far as rarity... Maybe see if you can hunt down production numbers. I'm shocked to hear you own three. It took me a little over a year of trolling Craigslist in a ~400-mile radius of my home to find one. Admittedly, a second one popped up less than two weeks later but was white (bad mix with the mountains) and needed new tires.

Thank you very much for the information. So how do the all trac manuals handle in the snow without the diff locked? Can you drift good without them locked? The funnest stuff here in salt lake city is the ice cross....so fun. I realy want to wipe the smiles off the subarus faces when they realize a all wheel drive camry is playing with them. The reason is my vsv valves that engage my center diff lock took a dump and I cant lock my center diff. And toyota dont have them as well as none of the junkyards....sucks. I can lock the center diff if I apply vaccume to the center diff but its not fun disengaging it...lol

I know, its crazy I have 3. I found them all in one week!!! Crazy.

['88 All-Trac]

Just see if you can hunt down a fluid coupling center diff on eBay or something! They do pretty good in ice/snow without it locked up but drifting is nigh-impossible with it disengaged. They tend to act like a FWD car. You can do it, true, but it's more of an "oh-shit-I-was-going-too-fast" slide at that point, not a smooth, controlled drift. I miss the snow. Totally looking forward to the winter season.

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

Just see if you can hunt down a fluid coupling center diff on eBay or something! They do pretty good in ice/snow without it locked up but drifting is nigh-impossible with it disengaged. They tend to act like a FWD car. You can do it, true, but it's more of an "oh-shit-I-was-going-too-fast" slide at that point, not a smooth, controlled drift. I miss the snow. Totally looking forward to the winter season.

Your right, I wonder how hard it would be to do the fluid coupler center diff. I cant imagine it would be too hard. Just pull off the transfer case and replace it with one from a gt4....

[white90dx]

I only have experience in the snow with the auto and its auto-locking diff. I also have the option (only on the Celica) Torsen limited slip rear. With that combo, it is very controlled and does get nicely tail-happy with power (there are significant suspension mods too, so that probably plays a part). I'm looking forward to having a manual trans for better engine braking in slippery conditions...

You should be able to swap just the transfer case section of the transmission with one from a Celica Alltrac - you can find them for sale on other forums sometimes. Another option is a complete replacement Celica Alltrac transmission - it will bolt up just fine (the Camry Alltrac trans is the same as the early JDM ST165 transmission).

As for rarity, I don't know. I have only ever seen one other Camry Alltrac on the road in Southern California, but they weren't sold down here (I got mine from Northern California)... In snowier areas, they are easier to find but generally rusty...

-Charlie

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by white90dx

I only have experience in the snow with the auto and its auto-locking diff. I also have the option (only on the Celica) Torsen limited slip rear. With that combo, it is very controlled and does get nicely tail-happy with power (there are significant suspension mods too, so that probably plays a part). I'm looking forward to having a manual trans for better engine braking in slippery conditions...

You should be able to swap just the transfer case section of the transmission with one from a Celica Alltrac - you can find them for sale on other forums sometimes. Another option is a complete replacement Celica Alltrac transmission - it will bolt up just fine (the Camry Alltrac trans is the same as the early JDM ST165 transmission).

As for rarity, I don't know. I have only ever seen one other Camry Alltrac on the road in Southern California, but they weren't sold down here (I got mine from Northern California)... In snowier areas, they are easier to find but generally rusty...

-Charlie

Thank you very much!! That was the answer I was looking for. So the Celica transfer case will just bolt right on...Awesome!!

I was just worried about if the final drive from the Celica would infer fer with the rear diff.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by boostedm10

I was just worried about if the final drive from the Celica would infer fer with the rear diff.

The 'final drive' for the transmission doesn't actually matter, as it drives the center differential. Its a different setup internally than your standard 4WD system. What matters is that the transfer case ring-pinion ratio matches the rear diff ring-pinion ratio. Toyota only ever used on ratio on the rear diff for Alltracs, so you are safe.

(I ran an ST205 Celica rear diff with my Auto Camry Alltrac, etc.)

-Charlie

PS. Its not obvious from the outside of the trans, but the transfer case and center differential are separated (not like a normal 4WD truck, etc.). The center diff drives the front diff directly, all 1:1. Power goes to the transfer case for the rear, through a ring/pinion to the back, back through a ring/pinion to the rear diff.

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by white90dx

The 'final drive' for the transmission doesn't actually matter, as it drives the center differential. Its a different setup internally than your standard 4WD system. What matters is that the transfer case ring-pinion ratio matches the rear diff ring-pinion ratio. Toyota only ever used on ratio on the rear diff for Alltracs, so you are safe.

(I ran an ST205 Celica rear diff with my Auto Camry Alltrac, etc.)

-Charlie

PS. Its not obvious from the outside of the trans, but the transfer case and center differential are separated (not like a normal 4WD truck, etc.). The center diff drives the front diff directly, all 1:1. Power goes to the transfer case for the rear, through a ring/pinion to the back, back through a ring/pinion to the rear diff.

Thank you Charlie, it looks like I am on the hunt for a Celica all trac center diff and rear end. Thank you again.

[boostedm10]

Here is my car's, both are All Tracs.

My 5 speed dd (the one that will get the 3sgte)

[boostedm10]

Here is my Automatic All Trac Parts car:

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by boostedm10

Thank you Charlie, it looks like I am on the hunt for a Celica all trac center diff and rear end. Thank you again.

You don't want the center diff, what you want is the transfer case. They are separate parts (yes, it sounds weird, but they are).

Also, the Celica Alltrac rear diff is the same as the Camry Alltrac rear diff unless you get the somewhat rare Torsen LSD. It was optional only on late ST185 Celica Alltracs and standard on the ST205 Celica GT4 which were never sold in North America.

-Charlie

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by white90dx

You don't want the center diff, what you want is the transfer case. They are separate parts (yes, it sounds weird, but they are).

Also, the Celica Alltrac rear diff is the same as the Camry Alltrac rear diff unless you get the somewhat rare Torsen LSD. It was optional only on late ST185 Celica Alltracs and standard on the ST205 Celica GT4 which were never sold in North America.

-Charlie

Thank you very much.....now where to find one....lol

['88 All-Trac]

mr2oc, perhaps, from someone who does a 3SGTE conversion.

When you engage the center diff lock on your manual twins, do they make any sort of noise? I'm never sure if mine engages or not because it makes no noise whatsoever.

Or is it that the locking mechanism is in the transfer case? This is all so confusing to me!

[boostedm10]

Originally Posted by '88 All-Trac

mr2oc, perhaps, from someone who does a 3SGTE conversion.

When you engage the center diff lock on your manual twins, do they make any sort of noise? I'm never sure if mine engages or not because it makes no noise whatsoever.

Or is it that the locking mechanism is in the transfer case? This is all so confusing to me!

I didn't think of going there. I am a member there too by the same name as here. Thats a very good idea, thank you.

When I push my diff lock button it, the solenoids just make a hissing sound. I made the mistake of swapping my vaccume lines to the bottom solenoid and pushing the button and my diff lock engaged but I couldn't get disengaged....after fighting with it for a bit, it finally disengaged. I have narrowed the problem to be the vaccume solenoids.