Coolant Leaking Issues

[jonsey1886]

I think there is potentially a blown head gasket in my Camry as I can see coolant pooling on the lower part of my block (above the oil filter area) and LOTS of steam at night when I'm running it and yes it's losing coolant-not just my imagination. Anyone want to give a guesstimate on how much time it would take to change (by a professional shop not me)?

More fun background:
1991 Toyota Camry
Recently replaced the following:
-Starter
-Distributor
-Radiator & lower rad hose (2nd part done by shop)

If you want shots of the last time I had to do major engine work click on my link here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=55f79c2a06

Please note I had to have major help from a very good mechanic and friend of my family to do so, who is now living on the other side of the world. As well as I live nowhere near the person who lent me the use of his air compressor, the other guy who lent me a few tools I didn't have as well as the use of his garage.

Although I can and do a LOT of my own car work I have not the facilities, tools, time, or inclination to do it myself. The only good news is I now have a digital copy of the FSM (obtained LEGALLY for $20 for a 1 day subscription to the Toyota database) which I use and is MUCH MUCH better than the Chilton's books.

I've priced the new engine gasket set which is about $102 w/ shipping from www.RockAuto.com

Let me know if you need any other background.

[Grego 92]

I would visit a few reputable auto shops and confirm the problem. Then get the time estimates AND what they will be doing, and also visit at least one local dealership for comparison sake. I think with the holiday season you will get longer periods/delays. Also, it depends how busy they are, how THOROUGH they will be, how many worker's they have, access to parts, and what equipment they have on-site (machinery) or whether they send stuff off.

Have you checked your oil and coolant for discoloration? If the oil looks like chocolate milk or the coolant looks really dirty with oil residue then you can expect a longer repair time and more costly. If it's just leaking straight out and no mixing of the fluids then a shorter period and less costly.

A mechanic can probably change a hg in a day, but there are so many variables that come into play you won't know until the mechanic looks at it and sees the damage and what caused it. It could be as simple as a head bolt was under torqued or as bad as a warped block and/or head.

[jonsey1886]

More fun background that I should have included in my original post.

I got this engine with 120K miles on it (3S-FE) from a yard after the original engine threw a rod due to my terminal stupidity when checking the oil while engine was hot & not cold.

The very helpful mechanic friend of the family did NOT suggest (and I did not think of IIRC) opening up the block & re-doing all the gaskets inside before we put the engine in.

So, since the day it was put in nearly 3 years ago, it has burned oil quite readily (just about a quart every week during the summer and every 2 weeks in the winter) and I just put up with it.

Then I discovered a crack in my radiator (OEM part 20ish years old) and got a very nice new replacement from a junker in a yard complete with new cooling fans (which had malfunctioned causing the overheat & crack this summer) for about $85. While installing it myself, like the idiot I am, I mis-read the location of the thermostat (in the Haynes & Chilton's books I both have) and popped the gasket off of the water outlet pipe area near the upper rad hose INSTEAD of the lower RAD hose. This caused coolant to leak a bit and my even more idiotic attempt at fixing it WHILE FORGETTING THE GASKET SEALANT for the replacement gasket made it gush......

Right up until I heard a bit of a backfire type noise my stupid gasket attempt pretty much ripping and coolant spewing onto the electrical connectors next to the outlet pipe and the car shut off. So since then A SHOP (which ripped me off but I had to use due to the emergency) has fixed the water outlet gasket & replaced the lower rad hose. The only places it could be leaking are

a.) the water pump, thermostat & associated gaskets which I have bought and should be here in the next 24 hours which will be installed by the other shop that I usually use and trust

b.) the head gasket

Also my primary job is pizza delivery and my secondary job is substitute teaching (both very much need a working car) in the local school system. Oh and I'm planning to driving north about 325 miles to visit my family in MD for the holidays on 24 December-1 January.

[white90dx]

The head gasket almost never leaks externally on these engines. I would guess you have a small leak around the water pump / thermostat housing.

My most recent leak was on the coolant bypass tubes (run across the front of the motor, under the exhaust manifold). I replaced the gasket and o-ring and that fixed the problem. Coolant was pooling right below the oil filter, running around the top of the oil pan and dripping off the back.

It sounds like you should be in for a reasonably cheap fix...

-Charlie

[jonsey1886]

Originally Posted by white90dx

The head gasket almost never leaks externally on these engines. I would guess you have a small leak around the water pump / thermostat housing.

My most recent leak was on the coolant bypass tubes (run across the front of the motor, under the exhaust manifold). I replaced the gasket and o-ring and that fixed the problem. Coolant was pooling right below the oil filter, running around the top of the oil pan and dripping off the back.

It sounds like you should be in for a reasonably cheap fix...

-Charlie

I should have gotten a few pictures up with my phone earlier but now it's too dark.

That is pretty much EXACTLY where my leak is, I was hoping that a replacement of the pump, gaskets, & timing belt would fix it (having the TB done as it needs to be removed ANYWAY to replace the gasketing).

It seems to be streaming (I dunno if that's the right word) from the busted gaskets across the bypass hoses and settling down the front of the block. At least I HOPE it is and would that account for the metric crap ton of steam I'm seeing during deliveries and my radiator being nearly empty after 7.5 hours of delivery work? If it is not I'm royally screwed (as I noted above).

Wondering if I can get away with not replacing the pump, just the housing & the gaskets with it and RMAing the pump for a refund?

[Doctor J]

Charlie, I saw quite a few external leaks from the head gasket between #2&3 cylinders on 89-90 engines (on the junk yard); ealy 87 engines tend to leak oil between head and block below the oil pressure switch location (after overheating; my car does it too).
As for the repairs:
1) need to verify it's the head gasket and not freeze plug
2) if old radiator is available temporary install it back, drain all coolant, refill with water and use K & N Blockseal (per instruction); do not use Bar's leak stopper.
Then put your radiator back and refill the system with coolant offering freeze protection (too much antifreeze can cause rupture again)
This repair may or may not be long lasting (it can take care of crack but not a big damage)
The basic head gasket job costs about $800
The mechanics need to get Toyota brand head gasket and new bolts (Felpro); other gaskets can be a major brand name.
The head upon removal should be inspected for warping and corrosion (white crust) near the coolant passages.
If out of flatness of the surface is more then .002 of an inch over the entire length of the head it must be milled down. If engine used oil the valve guides must be inspected or at least the oil caps on the valve stems must be replaced.
The coolant may also leak between the water pump cover and engine block with steam coming from under the alternator. The best way to test for sure is adding the red food dye to the water filing up the system and pressurizing it to about 10…14 psi (not 20); at home this can be done by adding air to the closed radiator with bike pump via recovery hose (engine cold and off) -stop pumping once you see the leak!

[96paseo]

This is where the HG leaked on what is now my cousins 1989 Camry. No oil contamination, just external leakage. The leak was slow but I wasn't gonna wait for the rest of the gasket to fail. This poor engine had seen 0 maintenance before I picked it up for $400 bucks from a co-worker. Oil leaks galore plus the HG problem. It took about $1000 worth of parts to get it road worthy again.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

Charlie, I saw quite a few external leaks from the head gasket between #2&3 cylinders on 89-90 engines (on the junk yard); ealy 87 engines tend to leak oil between head and block below the oil pressure switch location (after overheating; my car does it too).

I knew about the oil leaks, but I didn't know about the coolant leaks... Overheating (probably due to another leak!) will cause some crazy problems, right?

The cold start injector time switch on my Alltrac broke in half after an overheating episode caused by a leaky radiator cap... (never good to get the "the temp gauge is in the red, what do I do?" call from your girlfriend when she is driving your car...)

-Charlie

[jonsey1886]

Pics

my idiot water outlet gasket now fixed:



My cause for concern:
taken from slightly "behind" the exhaust manifoldtaken from the left of the exhaust manifold (looking down on the engine bay from above)

where I think the leak is originating:

[96paseo]

You could have one of a few different problems over there by the water pump housing. I can't see too well in your pic but check the o-ring and gasket that seal the bypass tubes to the water pump housing. If thats not it, the o-ring that seals the water pump housing to the block may be leaking. Also check the inlet housing that the radiator hose connects to. I've seen the aluminum rot through just above or underneath the end of the hose. It makes a pin hole and spits a stream of coolant.

[jonsey1886]

Thanks for the tips fellas let me address them 1 by one.

The old rad is in a landfill by now, I changed it right after Thanksgiving.

Sorry my pic is crappy but it's the best I can do with my old iPhone. The big white circular blob is my oil filter

The gasketing, pump, and pump housing in addition to the belts are getting changed as soon as FedEx gets here with the parts I'm driving it down the street to the shop I trust for immediate replacement.

Why don't I do it myself? Well frankly the high today is about 50 (F) with lots of wind and I live in an apartment complex. So no access to weather protected or warmable area nor many of the tools when I used to live with my parents and had a friend of the family with a large garage and a massive tool set (outside of my rather large & expensive 3/8" drive ratchet set). I can't jack up the engine, etc, etc (all the stuff in the timing belt removal thread) to get access to the water pump.

The radiator, starter & distributor I was able or forced to do myself due to the weather being nice and warm for the first and my car being stuck dead for the latter two.

[Grego 92]

If you're driving to the shop and having a mechanic do all the work anyhow, and you trust them, then ask them to take a look and identify where the leak is originating from and fix it.

I think if you have them change those items out and that isn't the problem then you may end up paying them to put them on and then take them off and put them on again and potentially have to buy more gaskets.

[jonsey1886]

Originally Posted by Grego 92

If you're driving to the shop and having a mechanic do all the work anyhow, and you trust them, then ask them to take a look and identify where the leak is originating from and fix it.

I think if you have them change those items out and that isn't the problem then you may end up paying them to put them on and then take them off and put them on again and potentially have to buy more gaskets.

If it's the head gasket as I've noted above I don't have the resources (or time) at the present to have my car on a rack for 3-4 days until after the Christmas and New Year's holiday week.

If they tell me that the pump, thermostat, & housing are all okay (which I seriously doubt) then I'll make a decision at that point and probably have them install a new housing (which has all the gasketing) and thermostat anyway and RMA the pump for a refund and yes I'll have them try to pressure test it beforehand.

[Grego 92]

That's ok, at least you'll know where the leak is originating from. If it isn't the pump and stuff you bought then you'll know to plan for time to have it fixed or rent a car because he may advise that it won't last the trip your going to take.

He should also advise you if the items you brought should be done now (it will help ensure you make your trip) or to wait until you have the source of the problem fixed.

[Doctor J]

Even with the garage the HG job is not easy (although I did the cylinder head swap on my 79 Supra) in the driveway of my relative's house (took about 10 hours without special tools)-2 days after work
It rather looks like a freeze plug (my friend's Camry had this leak), but I could be wrong
The shop must pump the system up like I suggested before changine the pump and then the gasket;the car must be COLD for this test (so they see the coolant, not the steam) also adding the red food color to the cooling system can spot some strange leaks.