Gen 3 and the TRD S/C

[ASG14]

Ok, I KNOW the S/C and the Gen 3 has been discoused, but never that well. So please do not flame me.

I'm thinking heavily about trying it, but need some info (and money, ugggg).

1: For one, the 2 issues i have heard is the stock Gen 3 ECU can't compensate for the changes. Couldn't the ECU be retuned by a perfessional to work with the S/C. Or is there much more of a issue then that?

2: I have also heard a possible issue with the S/C clearance. BUT, didn't someone on TN swap in a '97 S/C 1MZ in thier Gen 3? So the engine being the same and sitting in the same mounts, why would there be any kind of clearance problem? Or did he have one I did not know about.

3: Are there any differences in the hookup's of the S/C on the 1MZ from a Gen s to a Gen 4, or should it still be a direct bolt on with no cableing/wiring issues?

4: Any other problems you can think of?


Thanks for the help guys as i really want to do this within the next year. Wishful thinking, eh?

Adam

[MDogg2199]

this thread might answer some of your questions
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t9202.html

[Eye8Pussies]

^ same old things popping up

in short, if you have the money, then it's worthwhile to tackle the job....I am actually, seriously considering it these days, but then I came up with the unfortunate thought that I have the first first first generation 1mz in the 94, which is distributorless- all the 1mz engines afterwards have distributors on the front bank (i think)

though, a good thing is that an oil return line might help on the gen3....though we shouldn't need to tap it for an s/c

[ASG14]

Thanks Guys. Mine is a '96 with the ODBII. So i guess that is the easiest to work on for the S/C. Oh how I need $$.........

[MDogg2199]

someone said on here that some of the 96 1mz are the same as the gen4 1mz so the s/c might bolt on with out a problem. But don't quote me on that because I don't remember who said it and where the link is, so if you are going to do it good luck.

edit:

just saw this in the for sale section

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t100377.html

[Phi]

It just so happens that I ripped a copy of Gibson's entire site before it went offline. It documents the ENTIRE install in detail, incl problems he ran into. I'm in the process of uploading it at this very moment. It's taking kinda long so I'm gonna leave it overnight. It's 59KB (1392 pg PDF file) Check back 2moro morning or evening and I'll have a link for you. If I forget, PM me. G'night.

Edit: screw it. It's taking too long. I just copied the relevant info. I'll still post the site for those that want it later. The "m" were originally " * ".

Edit #2: here's the LINK

Supercharger Problems

In this section I'll attempt to detail every last little detail about the supercharger install on my 95 camry. I'll put them in the following format:

1. Problem short description
m Problem caused by......
m Problem resolved by.....
This should be a pretty simple format for showing the information you are all dying to know.

1. Low Idle
m Gen3 1mzfe ECU isn't smart enough to use the IAC (idle air control) valve to
control idle as well as the gen4 does, so the added load of the s/c dragged down
the idle.
m Adjust throttle stop screw AND the throttle position sensor. Requires the use of an
OBD-II scan tool so you can measure throttle position while adjusting the sensor.

2. Engine stalling when turning on A/C
m Caused by the loss of the A/C idle-up solenoid - there's nowhere to connect it on
the s/c since the gen4 controls A/C idle-up via the IAC valve. Idling up the engine
to cure the low idle cured this most of the way, but with the dynamic tensioner,
the idle comes down low enough to cause the tensioner to start bouncing,
causing the belt to hop and make some nasty noises every time the a/c comes on
at idle.
m The solenoid really should be left inline somehow... I'm working on a way to do
this right now, now that it's summertime again and I'm using the A/C all the time
again. It's really not that difficult, it just involves creative use of vaccuum taps and
Y-adapters.

3. EGR system doesn't fit
m Gen4 and Gen3 EGR systems are rather different. Gen3's just plain doesn't fit on
the s/c, and a gen4 system cannot be retrofitted (ECU handles it in a completely
different manner). It's not a big deal anyway, and EGR can possibly heat up your
intake charge, which is bad for a force-induced motor. The 3.4L trucks don't even
HAVE an EGR system most of the time, which may be why they have fewer
problems.
m I ended up having my rear header welded shut where the EGR used to connect,
http://www.gibson99.com/camry/95se/problems.html (1 of 4) [5/18/2004 1:11:13 AM]
Gibson99: 1995 SE V6 Coupe - Supercharger Problem/Cause/Action List
and I made a gasket with no center hole to seal the EGR opening on the s/c
manifold. I left the upper part of the EGR valve on there for two reasons - 1) to
hold the gasket in place, and 2) to pass a quick visual under-hood emissions
inspection. Does the car actually pass emissions? I don't know - I don't live in an
emissions county anymore. But theoretically, it should. Last year, before I
installed the s/c, I did have to put my car through an emissions test, and it passed
with flying colors. I haven't altered my catalytic convertor, so I should still pass.
My car doesn't smoke, and doesn't smell like unburned gasoline or rotten eggs,
so I should be good to go.

4. MIL (Check engine light) comes on when removing EGR system
m The ECU expects to see an EGR temperature at the EGR temp probe, located in
the EGR valve. Since the EGR system has been blocked off, It's seeing colder
temperatures than it expects, so it tries to open the valve. When opening the
valve doesn't do anything, it thinks something's broken, so it sets the "EGR flow
insufficient detected" DTC.
m This is an easy enough fix. Unplug the EGR temp sensor and insert a 1/2 watt,
10Kohm resistor into the harness end of the plug. What this does is to tell the
ECU that the EGR temp is about 210 degrees farenheit, which is right where it
likes it, so the ECU says "OK, I'm happy, I don't need to do anything to the EGR
valve." And thus, you don't get any EGR DTCs.

5. Nowhere to connect power steering vent/sense hoses
m There are two hoses coming from the power steering rack which originally
connected to the upper intake manifold. One is a vaccuum reference to provide
power assist at high vaccuum (low speeds) and to cut power assist at low
vaccuum (high speeds), while the other is a simple vent to allow the vapors
produced in normal power steering operation to be burned in the combustion
chamber by reinjecting them into the intake stream.
m I have the sense hose hooked up to one of the connectors under the boost cut
actuator, but the vent hose is (sadly) venting to atmosphere. I will correct this at
the same time I fix the a/c idle up issue, using some Y-adapters on some
vaccuum hoses.

6. Brake booster vaccuum hose doesn't reach
m Gen4's brake booster connects in almost the same location as it does on the s/c,
but on gen3, it connects to that metal tube, runs across the firewall to the
passenger side, and connects to the manifold there.
m You can't re-use any of the gen3 brake booster hoses here; they're not long
enough. Just cut a new piece of hose - I used some of the hose leftover from
installing my ATF cooler. Doesn't look as pretty as it might if it had been a gen4
OE hose, but it's just another hose... they all look the same anyway...

7. EBC incompatible w/ A/T ECU
http://www.gibson99.com/camry/95se/problems.html (2 of 4) [5/18/2004 1:11:13 AM]
Gibson99: 1995 SE V6 Coupe - Supercharger Problem/Cause/Action List
m Gen3 and Gen4 A/T ECUs are wired up in a VERY similar manner, but the gen3
trans uses different signals for shifting from the gen4, therefore you cannot hook
up the 2 shift solenoid wires from the EBC. Properly connected in an automatic
gen4, the EBC will cut boost in first, during shifts, and at 6500 RPM. In a 5-speed,
it only cuts boost at 6500.
m Connect the EBC as if your car is a 5-speed. This results in having boost in first
(which kicks ass once the ECU finally decides to go into open loop) but also
results in having boost between shifts. This can't be good for the tranny - it wasn't
designed to take that kinda power, and TRD had to have a reason to design that
little controller to do that.

8. EBC - Boost during shifts
m As described above, the EBC isn't compatible with the gen3's automatic tranny
ECU. Boost during shifts could potentially destroy some of the clutches in the a/t,
which means costly rebuild of the tranny.
m Current solution: let go of the gas pedal at about 5900 RPM so that it shifts while
under vaccuum instead of under boost. The problem with this method is that if
you want to run the gears (like in a drag race), you run the chance of getting back
on the gas too fast, before it finishes shifting, which can cause more damage to
the tranny than shifting under boost will. The other disadvantage to this is that you
don't get consistent 1/4 mile times since lifting off the gas just before a shift can
make the tranny less predictable than it normally is.
m Long-term solution: Ditch the slushbox (automatic) and put in a 5-speed. I'm
working on doing this myself, especially since Ratko of TTCC did the 5-speed
swap in his 94 v6 coupe (same engine as mine) without much trouble. I've wanted
to put a 5spd into my car since I originally bought it back in 1999... Just didn't
have the faith in myself to do it, but now I've got that "go for broke" attitude about
my car.

9. Blown knock sensors
m I was stupid and buried the tach in the red in first gear (forgot to shift) and popped
the knock sensor.
m Don't be stupid. Knock sensors are about $100 each (there are two). It's also a
good idea to replace the knock sensor wiring harness, coolant bypass hose, and
a buncha gaskets while you're in there replacing the knock sensors. It adds up
quick, so be careful.

10. Nose drive leaking oil
m TRD claims a little oil during break-in is normal. Problem is, mine never stopped
leaking till about 18k miles later, at which time it started making a rather nasty
rattling noise at light throttle acceleration. My guess is that all the oil leaked out,
and the supercharger was running dry, slowly tearing itself apart.
m TRD apparently knows about this, because when I called in to make a warranty
claim, and gave them the s/c's serial number, the guy said something along the
http://www.gibson99.com/camry/95se/problems.html (3 of 4) [5/18/2004 1:11:13 AM]
Gibson99: 1995 SE V6 Coupe - Supercharger Problem/Cause/Action List
lines of "oh, that's one of the old kazuma ones. yeah, we'll send you a new one."
So now I have a new supercharger complete with the new dynamic tensioner.

11. Can't fit 3/8" ratchet into hole on new dynamic tensioner
m Gen3's a/c lines are in a different place - in the way of this hole
m A 3/4" wrench fits on the end of the tensioner. While it's not as nice as a ratchet
would be, it works.

12. Alternator pivot bolt frozen
m This problem is not unique to my install - it seems all the 1mzfe supercharged
owners have this problem. This is because the bolt, which is made of brass,
threads into an aluminum nut on the other end. Over time, the two different
metals corrode because of galvanic current, and just about weld themselves
together. I imagine this is much worse where you see salt on the roads in the
winter. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with salty roads in Houston.
m MAKE SURE you put some anti-sieze on the threads of the alternator pivot bolt
before installing it to help prevent this corrosion. You'll thank me down the road
when it comes time to replace the timing belt or alternator, because you end up
destroying the bolt and damaging the idler plate removing a frozen bolt due to the
fact that it's a flush mount allen-head bolt, and you can't just put vice grips on it
and rip it out that way, and there's no room to get a drill in there and drill it out -
the bolt is about 4" long!