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Oil Sludge - How to attack?

12K views 35 replies 13 participants last post by  Laragen1 
#1 · (Edited)
I recently inherited the 6cyl Solara my mom bought new in 99. She only drove it about 10 miles a day back and forth to work and kept the oil changed. She later gave it to my sister, who drove it a little more than that a day, but didn't exactly keep up on her oil changes. When it quit on her about four months ago, she bought a new car, and I got this one because I needed a commuter, I am pretty handy, and the car is pretty nice still so I wanted to see what could be done.

I hauled it to a pretty well known Toyota mechanic who confirmed what I thought, engine sludge. He cleaned the oil pan and said he saw "small sparkles" of metal in the sludge, but nothing big or major but it now starts and runs and drives very nicely. Quiet at idle. What he basically said was, its not if it quits again, its when. I drive 66 miles a day round trip. I've driven it that twice now, but I have to admit I am nervous to drive it. So last night I googled and read threads and posts, here and elsewhere about battling back from a sludged engine. What I determined is that it has to be done slowly, not just dump some SeaFoam or something in and hope for the best, and that perhaps all is not yet lost if the car is still running which mine is. IT does however bellow smoke if you drive it a ways, park and restart.

I want to save this car if I can. I am fairly mechanically inclined so I figured what the heck and that I would give it a shot. So what is the best bet in starting to knock the sludge back? More frequent oil changes, like every 1000 miles? Open it and clean under the valve covers? (Is there a picture heavy thread on how to access that rear one?) Continue dropping the pan every now and then and cleaning it?

What has everyone else done?

Thanks in advance for any tips, or leads or ideas. I really do like this car. Ive liked it since mom bought it 17 years ago and I like driving it now. I just need to at least be working towards having it reliable to drive.



 
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#2 ·
Slug is going to be in every part of the bottom and top end of the engine. I would run an engine flush cleaner before every oil change. Let it drain overnight, then add oil. Sounding like the slug is really bad, you might have to do this about 5 times for every 1000 miles. May be costly to do this, but cheaper than a new engine.

Might be a good idea to run Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner in the fuel tank a few times to help clean out the carbon build up in the cylinders from the car being driven short trips since new.
 
#3 ·
I am posting this here for consideration by others:

[ame]https://youtu.be/53mciImmi5o?t=55[/ame]

Basically he drained the oil, added 2 quarts of diesel then topped off the rest of the required volume with 5W-30, idled for 5-10 minutes, then drained again and changed the filter, which was of course all clogged up.

I have never done that protocol, but I am thinking about it, if others approve.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I am posting this here for consideration by others:

https://youtu.be/53mciImmi5o?t=55

Basically he drained the oil, added 2 quarts of diesel then topped off the rest of the required volume with 5W-30, idled for 5-10 minutes, then drained again and changed the filter, which was of course all clogged up.

I have never done that protocol, but I am thinking about it, if others approve.


Did not have time to read all of the responses. NEVER would I run my engine with such scant lubrication, not even for 10 seconds, not even if held a gunpoint.
Sludge, if dissolved and circulating in the oil, will clog the filter and starve the remainder of the engine of proper oil flow. One of the symptoms of clogged filter is the oil pressure light blinking. STOP if that happens.
Sludge stuck to the surface within the engine does no particular harm-- circulating it is potentially harmful. Use cleaners/solvents sparingly and change the oil regularly.
 
#4 ·
You don't need magic additives to try to clean it. You don't want the oil to be cleaned off too fast either because it can plug up oil return holes.

Change the oil at 250 miles, then every 500 miles a few times, then every 1000 miles a few times, then continue on to 2,000 etc.

Use an oil that's known for cleaning, like Pennzoil yellow bottle.

Do NOT add transmission fluid to the oil. It does NOT clean, that's an old wive's tale from the old days. It does NOT have hardly any detergents in it.

If you want to learn more, create an account over on www.bobistheoilguy.com
 
#8 ·
If you are looking for cheaper oil, Pepboys usually has good deals during black friday (talking about $10-13/5qt) after mail-in rebate. My opinion on oil differs from most here in that most companies now make a good product. The deciding factor lies in how often you change your oil and driving interval. That said, I would go with QuakerState over Pennzoil since they are both SOPUS products, but QS is cheaper. (10 at Pepboys)

Another recommendation is using fully-synthetic oil which will clean the engine and will not break down as easily. I caution you, however, if you use synthetic, make sure your gaskets, o-rings, etc are new or else you might see your engine leaking oil.
 
#11 ·
I would like to see pics under the valve covers before making a final determination.

But a good synthetic oil will begin the cleaning process. Over time, it will clean most of your sludge out. But a real big sludge issue will take a longer period of time (months).

Good Luck and don't give up on that good looking ride!
 
#13 ·
Sludge will be at top and bottom ends.

You can clean out the top end by doing a good cleaning job on the cover.

For the bottom end, use SeaFoam and 500mi oil changes with a high detergent oil and good filters. Should cost ~$60 ish, all in.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I recently inherited the 6cyl Solara my mom bought new in 99. She only drove it about 10 miles a day back and forth to work and kept the oil changed. She later gave it to my sister, who drove it a little more than that a day, but didn't exactly keep up on her oil changes. When it quit on her about four months ago, she bought a new car, and I got this one because I needed a commuter, I am pretty handy, and the car is pretty nice still so I wanted to see what could be done.

I hauled it to a pretty well known Toyota mechanic who confirmed what I thought, engine sludge. He cleaned the oil pan and said he saw "small sparkles" of metal in the sludge, but nothing big or major but it now starts and runs and drives very nicely. Quiet at idle. What he basically said was, its not if it quits again, its when. I drive 66 miles a day round trip. I've driven it that twice now, but I have to admit I am nervous to drive it.
Nice ride.
Question for you on the comment that the car quit on your sister. What was the actual diagnosis for it "quiting". It sounded like your Toyota mechanic was after the fact when you took ownership. There should be something more definitive to when it quit for your sister. Was there an invoice with what repair was done to get the car running again after it quit? Also not trying to be rude but if you went to the mechanic and suggested sludge , he might "find" sludge.... I was terrified of sludge while shopping for my Camry. No doubt sludge exist but I think its possibly overplayed. Any receipts or mileage on how often your sister changed the oil? If not whats your estimate on the oil change interval?

Also I'm not familiar with the 6cyl engine but there is YouTube videos of what I think would cover your engine. Also the guy that made this video is on this forum.
 
#16 ·
The guy above me posted u a vid that is DA BOMB, but that same video maker also made an associated PHOTO PACK for each step of what he's doing --a couple steps on the vid are dark so the photos can fill u in there.

The vid maker posted them up at...dang I forgot. The photos (100 of them) are compressed together, so u download them and check them out in sequence, without the Enchanted Tiki Room soundtrack in the background, there.

Maybe someone will know that URL, which was somewhere at MegaDownload.com, now mega.nz, or something.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I should have clarified, Im sorry. She claims had the oil changed fairly often but the shop she typically went to reports to carfax and it showed an interval of almost 10k once and 7k a different time. Several gaps where there is no record. Its not to say she didn't go elsewhere but its all I have to go on. She had the valve cover gasket done and they wrote on the receipt "sludge exists" and her last oil change receipt indicates "sludge" and "only one quart of oil drained out". When it quit, it had a check engine light on, and the oil light came on then it died. Using my code reader, it showed five codes.

random multiple cylinder misfire
cylinder 2 misfire
cylinder 5 misfire
Exhaust gas recirculation flow excessive
EGR valve position

I did mention i wanted him to check for sludge but I primarily wanted to know if it was worth working on, or safe to drive. It blows white smoke when you start it up and had a while. I googled and figured that was a sludge symptom as well.

He pulled the oil pan and said it had small bits of metal in it, but recommended I drive it and keep the oil changed every 3000 exactly. He replaced the EGR valve which was really the only other repair. Ive put 300 miles on it since then. Still starts and runs fine. no check engine lights. Does smoke on start up after long distances and has lost about a half quart of oil i believe. Guess its burning off. Ill watch that video now, thanks!
 
#19 · (Edited)
I went through this on my 2003 Avalon about 9 months ago. Here is the thread that will tell you more than you want to know:


http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...on-purs-out-blue-smoke-valve-seals-rings.html


Don't worry about the "small metal balls" because those are just normal deposits with a sludged engine problem, and they aren't metal anyway. Also, you are too paranoid about using solvents and cleaners. These engines aren't that delicate. Be aggressive about cleaning. Heck, I ran a quart of Kerosene in my engine for 1,000 miles. It helped in the cleaning process. The white smoke in the morning is from oil being sucked into the intake manifold via the PCV valve. This happens because the sludge has blocked your PCV valve and instead of the normal airflow back into the intake manifold, you have a vacuum that is causing a fine mist of oil to be sucked into the intake manifold. The car should also being using about a quart of oil every 500 miles or so.


1. Pull the front valve cover (easy job) to confirm it is sludged. See pictures in my thread.
2. If sludged scarpe sludge from engine with a small scrapper and use shop rags to scrape the sludge from out under the cam shafts. Don't be afraid to use Kerosene, carb cleaner and/or brake cleaner. Yes, some will go down into the oil pan. Who cares. Make sure you clean behind the valve cover baffles in the front valve cover to restore proper PCV airflow.
3. The most important job is to remove the rear valve cover and scrape the sludge out from around the PCV valve. Otherwise you will continue to have fresh oil sucked into your engine and burned. This is not really all that hard, but it is time consuming and you must not get impatient. Also replace the gasket between the air plenum and the intake manifold as it will be worn. Does this car has the infamous 14mm bolt going from the No. 1 engine hanger to the air plenum? Make sure you clean behind the baffles in the rear valve cover to restore proper PCV airflow to prevent further smoking. If you have the money, you can even invest in a 5 gal bucket of Berryman's Carburetor Cleaner to make sure the valve covers are cleaned well. But this is $125.


I'll stop here. Please just read through my thread on this. If you have any questions, I'll try to help as best I can. I'm not a mechanic. But, I can tell you there is a world of difference now in how my car runs now and how it ran when I bought it new with 71K miles on it. It now has 88.5K miles. I bought it from a little old Indian lady in her 90's. She just made short trips and also didn't maintain the car right with infrequent oil changes.


I originally though my problem was oil leaking through the valve stem seals, but this was not the case. Also don't worry about the sludge in the oil pan for now.
 
#22 ·
Years ago I got somewhat aggressive on an old Dodge 318 that had sludged up. I pulled the valve covers, scrapped out what I could, sprayed Marvel's Mystery Oil all over everything. It worked...but a Chrysler 318 is hard to kill!

If I were in your shoes, I would use Pennzoil Synthetic and change it every 3,000 miles. I would check the oil often during that 3,000 and if it was burning any, top it off with Marvel's Mystery Oil (but no more than a quart, total, during that 3,000 miles). Pennzoil synthetic cleans very well and the Marvel's cleans very well, also. I've used Marvel's since the late 1980's...I like it.

In my own vehicle (1999 Solara, V6, 257,000+ miles) I use Pennzoil synthetic and do 7,500 mile oil change intervals, topping it off with Marvel's when needed (after 4,500 miles and never more than a quart total before the next oil change). Usually, I'm down a half a quart after 4,500 miles and then top it off with Marvel's. When I hit 7,500, it's usually down about another half quart...then I just change the oil. No sludge problems on my ride.
 
#28 ·
Assuming this is the same stuff, then no, not bad.

My needs are the same as yours, you see, so I will be buying this stuff tonight, in all probability.

That is, if you can confirm that it is the same.

You see, everyone said, "yellow bottle" but I noted that Penzoil has like **7 different varieties** which are yellow bottle.

I just wanna get the one with MAX detergents.

To me it's weird you can't simply buy the detergent sub-component.

The only product I've found like that is "CD2", but no one talks about it.

???
 
#32 · (Edited)
If you're going to use the slow method of cleaning out the sludge, I would disconnect the PCV suction hose from the PCV valve for now. Your PCV valve is blocked by sludge anyway, and it isn't working. This will prevent a vacuum being formed inside the rear valve cover that is sucking the fine mist of oil into the air plenum and intake manifold.
 
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