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3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001 Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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Old 09-23-2006, 02:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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First test drive after new struts installed! Read long story for results!

Yesterday I finished my strut project on my 94 V6 Camry. The history on it is that in the past 3 years the rear was ratteling as if there were blocks of wood in the trunk, and the front were banging on bumps and ratteling as if the front end would fall apart when driving down bad roads.

All the struts had lost their dampening after I removed them the pistons had very very poor resistance-the left front had no resistance at all. I could lift the piston let go and it would just drop into the strut. The rears had very notchy resistance they definatley needed to go. The front strut mounts were shedding rubberm but the rears looked very good and this surprised me since i thought that was what was making all the rattleing from the back. It turns out that it was the worn sway bar to frame mounting bushings that were worn allowing the sway bar to bang around inside the mounting brackets that secure it to the frame. So whenever I hit bumps the sway bar would bounced and vibrated inside the brackets essentially bouncing off the frame. Because the rear struts were worn the suspension would bottom out and the sway bar would hit the upper frame were the torsion/control arms attach, this would make a lound clank and then the sway bar would vibrate in the mounting bushings. This is why when you hit bumps the rattle keeps going for a few seconds and then stops if there are no more bumps. The whole process starts over once you hit more bumps.

I took the easy way out and cut the rear endlinks off with my dremel cut off wheel(30 seconds each side) then unscrewed the sway bar mounting bracket bolt that is closer to the front of the car and pryed down on the bracket to allow enough clearance to slide the bar out after prying the old bushings out with a small screwdriver. So now the source of the chronic rear rattle that so many camry owners report is Totally eliminated.

TEST DRIVE: the struts I used are Gabriel SVT road sensing. They were 269.00 delivered for all 4 got off ebay 6 months ago. Took the camry out on several different road types and speeds earlier today. First impression was WOW this thing rides VERY quiet now. NO rattle from the rear and NO rattles from the front, when I hit bumps now all I hear is the tire it is very very quiet and smooth. The shocks absorb the bumps comptetl, no harshness or stiffness just a very smooth ride, I like it a lot. I drove over several roads that used to make the suspension sound like it was falling apart and now it is very quiet, you wouldnt even hear me comming, whereas before it was actually embarrasing driving down some streets in my neighborhood with all the suspension rattleing.

Now I was curious as to how much removing the rear sway bar would affect the handeling. I felt absolutely NO difference in rear sway at all. I took it up on the highway and did several quick lane changes at normal (60MPH) and high speed 70-75 and it felt no different than before, in fact it is better because of the new struts. Needless to say I am not going throught the trouble of putting the rear sway bar back on. It does nothing for everyday normal driving in the city and highway and when it wears it is a horrible rattleing that develops. Most cars never had a rear sway bar anyway, the FRONT sway bar is the one that does all the work-I'd NEVER remove the front. But the rear on the camry's is so small it isnt even noticeable when you remove it.

Well I am very glad to have finally repaired this thing, I saved many hundreds of dollars doing it myself(probably over 1,000) and will keep this car for a lot longer now. I was fustrated with it last week and posted that I was going to sell it but not anymore!
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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despite what you say about the rear sway bar, it DOES make a difference- quite a big difference in fact, and it is especially noticeable when one upgrades to the whiteline rsb, which is only along the lines of 5m thicker I think.

but then again, it really depends on your driving style, and the rest of your modifications. you probably didn't feel much of a difference because you are on stock suspension- as much as you say that you made a "fast" lane change, your car would sway regardless

the biggest safety concern on your part though is that you now have working suspension with the state that your original struts were at, I'm surprised that you never caught any air when you hit big bumps on the highway
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye8Pussies
despite what you say about the rear sway bar, it DOES make a difference- quite a big difference in fact, and it is especially noticeable when one upgrades to the whiteline rsb, which is only along the lines of 5m thicker I think.

but then again, it really depends on your driving style, and the rest of your modifications. you probably didn't feel much of a difference because you are on stock suspension- as much as you say that you made a "fast" lane change, your car would sway regardless

the biggest safety concern on your part though is that you now have working suspension with the state that your original struts were at, I'm surprised that you never caught any air when you hit big bumps on the highway

I think I did catch air a few times going up on ramps. I am more suprised that the strut didnt break in pieces or jam up, there was no fluid in it.

For performance driving I would upgrade the rear sway bar bushings at least. But this camry is my daily driver, removing the rear sway bar isnt noticeable unless you are speeding on real curvy road racing somebody. I literally felt no difference at all even at moderate increases above the speed limit on various roads. But like you say the important thing is that the car is safe it rides nice and no more rattleing noises that were very distracting and embarassing.

Now all I need find a new rear door to replace my smashed in original LOL!
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Old 09-23-2006, 03:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you change the strut mount too.
My 97 clunks when I go over bumps and I've been told to replace the strut mounts.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You removed the RSB entirely? I can't imagine how badly it must push through corners now. It's hard to notice the effect of the RSB when not driving hard, so lane changes won't mean jack. It's when you're taking a corner at speed that it matters. With my stock RSB, my car would push once it got past the apex, but when I put the TRD RSB on, the car was kept much more in line and I could actually kick the rear out a little sometimes.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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rear strut mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Did you change the strut mount too.
My 97 clunks when I go over bumps and I've been told to replace the strut mounts.

Yes I replaced all the strut mounts. My front strut mounts has torn rubber inside, the front mounts are exposed to heat, and more load from the weight. If you have rattle from the front replace the strut mounts and struts amd the spring isolator. If you have a 95 on up camry you also have an upper bearing plate. 94 and earlier dont.
From what I saw with my 94 though the rear strut mounts are not likely to be wornout before the struts themselves wear out. My rear struts were blown but the strut mounts were in very good condition-so much so I probably could have re-used them and just installed new rear struts and spring seats. Even the upper spring seats(the rubber that fits between the stut mount and the spring) were in very good condition not even torn. But again the struts themslelves were blown. I think the only reason you are ever going to find worn REAR strut mounts is if they come loose for some reason and they are literally shifting around the mounting area and tearing the rubber, or if they were dry rotted or simply defective fromt he factory, but again mine had 184,000 original miles on them and they were still in good condition.

Other than that the rear strut mounts don't take much abuse, not as much as the fronts anyway. The source of the rattleing is the sway bar to frame mounting bushings, the bushings wear out to a larger diameter than the sway bar and the sway bar bangs up and down and vibrates inside the worn out bushings and it only takes a little bit of wear. The bushings get hard over time and this sends all the noise of the sway bar banging around right through the frame.

Anyone who has the rattle should simply take out the sway bar(temporarily) and if the noise goes away get new sway bar mounting bushings they simply slide right onto the bar and you install the mounting bracket over them and bolt the bracket to the frame.

Of the noise is still there it's either "LOOSE" strut mounts wich are easily tightened by removeing the rear speaker panel, or the bolt on the end of the strut rod in the center of the strut mount has come loose-the later might not be as simple as tighteining it down because the rod might turn with the bolt. Then you have to take the strut and mount off and compress the spring so you can put the strut mount back on the rod so it is locked on, and THEN tighten it and reinstall. But this ends up being done whenever people replace their struts and mounts anyway, so they THINK that the parts were bad.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sway bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMastyr
You removed the RSB entirely? I can't imagine how badly it must push through corners now. It's hard to notice the effect of the RSB when not driving hard, so lane changes won't mean jack. It's when you're taking a corner at speed that it matters. With my stock RSB, my car would push once it got past the apex, but when I put the TRD RSB on, the car was kept much more in line and I could actually kick the rear out a little sometimes.

Yes I took the bar out completely. My car is completly stock 4 door V6 LE, stock wheels and tires and stock replacement struts. I don't drive it aggressively enough to worry about the increased lean removing the sway bar can cause. I didnt notice any difference at all with normal driving, IE; if you drive at the posted speed limits or even a little above you'll never notice it. Of you are on a really curvy road and are trying to keep up with an M3 in front of you and you floor the gas going into a turn, you WILL notice the rear lean more.
I am not interested at this time in trying to make the car a "canyon carver" by putting in a better rear sway bar or stiffer bushings, but if I do re-install the sway bar I will use poly bushings to prevent the dreaded sway bar mount bushing wear rattle. Poly bushings WOULD cure the problem. A bigger sway bar will help the car corner flatter at higher speeds in sharp turns and so would just leaving the stock one in there, but I don't drive to the point where the sway bar becomes a factor-not in this car anyway. You can do a lot of suspension tuning with sway bars, but I know the limits of the car the way it is now and I like it. The ride is much softer and smoother and that is what I was looking for, not stiffer. All I care about right now is that the rattle is gone
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Did you change the strut mount too.
My 97 clunks when I go over bumps and I've been told to replace the strut mounts.

Also if it is the front that is clunking it could be the ball joints. I replaced mine 6 months ago when I did the axles. They were badly worn. Definately get those checked out too if they break you'll loose control of the car.
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