3sgte in a gen 4

[Camryshowoff97]

Ok i looked all over the site in the stickies in the general camry forum and could not find a thread on the 3s swap. My motor is on its last leg and instead of rebuilding it or replacing it with a reman 5s i was thinking of doing the 3sgte swap but i wanna know a list of everything that has to be done and a general idea of the cost to compare it with some other options i have. Any info would be great thanks guys.

[rusty9]

[felonyr301]

from what i seen it's going to cost you an arm and a leg seriously i hear people talking about over $5,000 just to install the engine on right and I think that's when you do the work yourself so labor charges is going to kill you and that's if you can find somebody who even knows how to do it.

[Creeps228]

PROBLEMS IN YOUR FUTURE, i aksed the same thing b4...i got yelled at
If you have the time and money...go head...

[ASG14]

Questions we need to know 1st:
1: Who will do it, you or a shop?
2: Which 3SGTE? Early ones had around 200HP and can get a decent used one for $1500, or a 3rd Gen from Japan with ~265hp for $3,000.
3: Is your car already a manual?

[Camryshowoff97]

Thanks to those who actually answered with something constructive to say, I hate when i come on here to ask legitimate questions that arent covered in a sticky and people flip out. I was lookin for that general cost to compare it over to some other options i have, I have a 5sfte lined up with forged internals already for alot cheaper than that swap will cost so im gonna be going in that direction. Thanks for the replies though.

[ASG14]

The 5SFTE will be cheaper, but yea, make sure you build the internals up RIGHT. Nearly everyone here seems to blow them.

Have you thought about swapping in a 1MZFE to start with? May as well build it up before you swap that into the car, then add a S/C or Turbo at a later date. You'll have a lot more power to start with. Most people are suprised at the difference in power between the 5SFE and 1MZFE.

[Camryshowoff97]

I know theres a pretty good power difference between the 5s and the 1m but i also heard that the 1m swap takes alot more than everyone thinks and that it would cost an arm and a leg also. There is a guy down where i live that has the 5s in his car he built the internals and slapped a turbo on it but he was also thinkin of doing a 3s swap so he offered to sell me that motor if he goes through with it. His is a 3rd gen though so it does not have OBDII not sure how that will work out ill have to swap everything instead of just the motor. Do you know how hard it is to swap the 1m into an automatic 4cyl? My tranny is new in my car too.

[97camryman]

Alright heres the deal man, btw you have a good looking gen 4, anyways, I built a 5sfte and its fun, really fun actually but I still want more and its only been like 10 months now. I have been running at 9 pounds and its enough to run with mustangs and stuff and even beat nicer cars but usually you just lose by a car and they make fun of you for "wasting money" I want to blow their doors off and laugh at them. A 3sgte is what I am swapping in the next 8 months or so. So heres what needs to happen. Dont do a 3sgte unless you will be going full force. Rip out everything in your engine bay and just forget about it ok? You will need a E153 5 speed out of a v6 camry or solara and that just a fact. I managed to tear ever single tooth but two off my second gear on the camry 5 speed tranny with a 5sfte on 9 pounds. Just do a e153 and have a good reliable tranny with better gearing for a turbo plus you can install an lsd and believe me, you will need one if you ever want to launch your car. Now you can reuse your hubs and brakes and struts so put that to rest. Now buy a front clip form jarco and only jarco. They will give you half a st185 celica gt4 and it will have everything you need including a bigger fuel pump and some other stuff. You will need a good clutch so spend the 400-500 dollars on a good act or better clutch that can handle a power upgrade. I would just get an st185 clip which is a gen 2 3sgte btw because its cheaper by $1000 than the third gen and most of the things that add power to the third gen will just have to be upgraded anyways. For example the gen 3 has a bigger turbo, you will eventually upgrade this anyways trust me. Then you will pull the motor, mount the new clutch up, mate it to your camry or solara e153 (it will bolt right up) and drop it into the engine bay. You will need to mix and match and fabricate engine mounts, the v6 tranny mount should work since it is designed for that tranny in the gen 4 chassis. The upper mount by the strut tower can also be made to work on the motor side. The rear canbe custom or use the mr2 rear axle holder with the half shaft bolted to a camry v6 axle. The other driver side axle will need to be out of a v6 camry. Now the front mount might bolt up since the s blocks are identical except for some bolt holes but the casting marks are the same. The downpipe might be an issue but I already have a downpipe that should work otherwise use the gt4 mount and drill holes and or weld to the chassis. You also might want to invest in a torque damper to dampen engine movement on hard launches. I get so much wheel hop even with poly filled mounts that I am fabricating a mount system to use an actual shock absorber off a small car to damper engine movement. Next you need a custom exhaust, 2.5 inches at least and a front mounted intercooler. You shoudl flush and replace all the fluids and you should upgrade the radiator to a thicker aluminum unit. A colder thermostat, aftermarket oil pressure, coolant temp, and boost gauge should be the minimum and you will be mainly set. You can make the cables brom the gt4 work with some mods to fit the shifter, and if you need a clutch pedal you can chop the brake pedal shorter and make the gt4 pedal work. I actually have a ae86 corolla clutch pedal assembly in my gen 4 right now so believe me, you can get almost anything to work! All said and done at leasts $4000 but you will have a good engine with known milage not some estimate and a strong tranny with good gearing. You can add a boost controller and net easy 14's mabe even high 13's with good driving. A bigger turbo, bigger injectors, colder plugs, and a good tune will see you into the high 12's so all in all its not bad if you think about it.

[97camryman]

Oh and you will need to wire it up but you can find diagrams and its really easy, just use the 3sgte harness and match it up under the dash where it connects to the body harness. Sorry if I make it sound simple but it really is, after wiring up a 20v 4age in a corolla where you cant find diagrams this is a simple task that has been done numerous times. Reuse the stock ecu and connect all the grounds. Feed it positive current, run the starter wire and wire it to the ignition switch and it should start right up. The speed sensor will plug into the e153 if its an electronic speedo sensor. Then you connect the other wires such as AC idle up, rpm signal wire, check engine light, etc. But the car will run and drive with very little real hardcore wiring.

[Luckynumber5]

Ok, I think you will be better off going with a v6+ manual swap. Couple reasons:

The 1mz comes with as much horsepower as any USDM 3s-gte and way more torque and a better curve. You will need some pretty decent mods to the 3s to be able to really pull away from a 1mz with a good driver. It is an OBD compliant engine so if something goes wrong you can scan it with a USDM scan tool. The swap should cost less and will be simpler.

Now, consider selling the car and buying a v6 Camry to start with for a few reasons:

You will have an easy time selling a mostly stock car later on. And the v6 Camrys come with a better brake package than the 4 cyl (buy an auto v6 so you get ABS then convert to 5 speed later on)


Whatever you do, slow down and be sure you have a good idea of what you will be getting into, look at other cars and what it takes to make them go faster.

[Camryshowoff97]

Yea ive looked into other cars but i actually enjoy the camry simply for the fact that it catches people off guard, Kinda like camryman up there i wanna be able to beat people in a camry cause no one will expect that. I understand what your saying about the v6 havin more power than the 3s but then again the 3s is a stock turbo so upgrading the turbo isnt a huge deal... adding on a supercharger or a turbo to the v6 will require more upgrading. Not sure what ill end up doing i really appreciate all the information you guys are chipping in its helping out alot. ive gotten a 4000 and a 5000 dollar idea for the 3s swap any ideas on how much it is to convert my car to the v6 motor because i dont have the ability right now to purchase a secondary vehicle to start with....

[ASG14]

The 1MZ swap is actually not as had as people think it is, haha. I swapped a 5SFE for a 3VZ with my friend down in Hollywood, FL. Well, he did most of it, I helped for 2 days. IF you have an entire parts car (Say a 1998 V6 camry totaled in a rear end collision), you should have most all you need. Easiest way is to just swap the subframes WITH the engine/drivetrain/suspension still attached.

[Camryshowoff97]

Does seem like thatd be pretty easy. I dont know which way im gonna end up going im probably gonna see if the guy with the turbo'd 5s is going to do his swap cause if he is thatll save me a whole lot of headaches lol.

[Tony the Tiger]

My general guideline is, aside from 97camryman's nice tech write-up, mine is more of a suggestion to which path you should choose.

If you are looking for decently reliable 300+ WHP power levels, easy upgrading to feed the need of greed, then the 3S-GTE swap would be one of the best routes to go with.

If you are looking for great everyday driveability, factory like reliability, and plenty fast at around 220-280 WHP, a 1MZ swap would be a the better choice.

If you want to "beat" people at a local cruise, I am afraid you will want 300+ WHP for sure. There are compromises though, meaning you live with old aged 3S-GTE common problems with turbo cars, stuff could fail, sensors could fail, etc.. problems with the older engines in general.

If you want to RAPE people at a local cruise, including Supras and Vettes, well, PM me for advice, but you better have $15000 in your pocket to start with...LOL My tech edvice is free, but the guy doing the work and the parts aren't

But all in all, it is way better than turbocharging your stock motor and putting in forged internals if you ever plan on seeing 250+ WHP. Some people are happy with a healthy 200 WHP setup, so turbocharging a 5S would be a good solution for them. Just choose your setup based on your goals and demands