Ethanol and 5S-FE

[Lord Anonymous]

Hi!
I've a 1994 camry with the 5S-FE engine, and I've 416.000 kms.

Here in France, we have a new fuel named E85, there's 85% of ethanol, and 15% of unluaded fuel.
Nobody here can tell me if this new fuel will work with my car.
Do the american customers knows this fuel? Do you use it? Is there some problems with it? Some engine modifications?

Thank you (especially for your patience for reading my bad language!!!) for any information!

[mmathur98]

E85 ethanol is a new fuel designed for a greener planet. It will give your car slightly more power, but will actually reduce your fuel economy. Newer cars called "flex cars" can handle either regular gasoline or E85. Older cars, like your camry, will need to get modified to handle the E85. They will need to replace the fuel lines, and some other components, otherwise over time, the E85 will degrade those components. Hope this helped.

[Lord Anonymous]

Yes, thanks. I must replace all parts made of rubber I think in the fuel lines, and which other composants must I replace in this camry?

[Lord Anonymous]

Is there some kit to make the camry compatible with E85 fuel?

[Toysrme]

Ethanol is bullshit, don't run it.

• Contains only 67.6% of the energy the equivilant volume of gasoline contains.
• Lowers fuel economy by over 25%
• Is required to run rouhgly 30% richer to maintain a stochiometric combustion compaired to gasoline. Meaning you will blow your engine up if you do not convert the enginet o stand-alone management.
• Your entire fuel system will need to be replaced.
• Does not cost appreciably less money at the pump.

I'll take gasoline every day of the week & if I need a fuel of 100-05octane, then I'll run 87 octane & water injection. It'd still be cheaper, have more octane & create more power.



Ethanol is for eco-twits, and people that don't know any better.






btw, Toyota states their engines can run a maximum of 10% alcohol content.

[ASG14]

^ DING DING.

From every study I hgave seen on it, it;s crap even in a car designed for it.

[Lord Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Toysrme

Ethanol is bullshit, don't run it.

• Contains only 67.6% of the energy the equivilant volume of gasoline contains.
• Lowers fuel economy by over 25%
• Is required to run rouhgly 30% richer to maintain a stochiometric combustion compaired to gasoline. Meaning you will blow your engine up if you do not convert the enginet o stand-alone management.
• Your entire fuel system will need to be replaced.
• Does not cost appreciably less money at the pump.

I'll take gasoline every day of the week & if I need a fuel of 100-05octane, then I'll run 87 octane & water injection. It'd still be cheaper, have more octane & create more power.



Ethanol is for eco-twits, and people that don't know any better.






btw, Toyota states their engines can run a maximum of 10% alcohol content.

Ok thanks you. In France, there a big difference between ethanol price (0.80€/L) and unleaded fuel 95 (1.30€/L)... It was interessant, but if the car don't accept it...

[toyomoho]

Later model cars in the US are designed to be able to run on 10% ethanol not E85. Using E85 requires the car be designed to run on it and most US cars are not. Check your owners manual to see if this car is designed to run on E85 (not 10% ethanol), if not don’t use it.

A google search on E85 will turn up a lot of hits, a few are below. Keep in mind E85 produces less MPG then straight gasoline hence you cannot use fuel costs alone to compare.

http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_5a.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

[MIC0417]

Yes it has a lower energy content than gasoline, but it has a higher octane. I don't know why everyone is bashing it when some race cars use this. It also emits less CO2 thereby helping the Earth a little.

[ASG14]

Originally Posted by MIC0417

Yes it has a lower energy content than gasoline, but it has a higher octane. I don't know why everyone is bashing it when some race cars use this. It also emits less CO2 thereby helping the Earth a little.

Some race cars also use eletricity. Does not mean your going to go hook up batteries on your car.

The stuff in it;s current form is crap, plain and simple. And the oil companies get suplemented for whats sold.

NOW, if you were in Brazil (I think it is), thats different. Thier E85 is not exactly the same. But E85 is still a waste.

[Venom_5]

Originally Posted by ASG14

Some race cars also use eletricity. Does not mean your going to go hook up batteries on your car.

well, i do have some spare rechargable AA's lying around ...


i dont think converting to ethanol is worth it at this point for anyone [unless you have no choice for some weird reaosn] - the 5SFE is plenty efficient, so if youre looking for gas mileage you already have it ... and if you wanna save the earth, get a bike!

[DarkMastyr]

Ethanol is a huge pile of political crap, advocated by those who are uneducated as to the effects of its usage.

Toys' points are dead on, and allow me to add that the "economic benefits" of using ethanol are highly questionable, especially now that food prices are starting to increase (not only in the U.S., but especially in Brazil) due to the processing of ethanol from food sources like corn and sugar cane. The "environmental benefits" of using ethanol are extremely dubious and likely much worse than what the public has been led to believe:

http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...ol-041807.html

"We found that E85 vehicles reduce atmospheric levels of two carcinogens, benzene and butadiene, but increase two others—formaldehyde and acetaldehyde," Jacobson said. "As a result, cancer rates for E85 are likely to be similar to those for gasoline. However, in some parts of the country, E85 significantly increased ozone, a prime ingredient of smog."

Inhaling ozone—even at low levels—can decrease lung capacity, inflame lung tissue, worsen asthma and impair the body's immune system, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The World Health Organization estimates that 800,000 people die each year from ozone and other chemicals in smog.

"In our study, E85 increased ozone-related mortalities in the United States by about 200 deaths per year compared to gasoline, with about 120 of those deaths occurring in Los Angeles," Jacobson said. "These mortality rates represent an increase of about 4 percent in the U.S. and 9 percent in Los Angeles above the projected ozone-related death rates for gasoline-fueled vehicles in 2020."

The study showed that ozone increases in Los Angeles and the northeastern United States will be partially offset by decreases in the southeast. "However, we found that nationwide, E85 is likely to increase the annual number of asthma-related emergency room visits by 770 and the number of respiratory-related hospitalizations by 990," Jacobson said. "Los Angeles can expect 650 more hospitalizations in 2020, along with 1,200 additional asthma-related emergency visits."

The deleterious health effects of E85 will be the same, whether the ethanol is made from corn, switchgrass or other plant products, Jacobson noted. "Today, there is a lot of investment in ethanol," he said. "But we found that using E85 will cause at least as much health damage as gasoline, which already causes about 10,000 U.S. premature deaths annually from ozone and particulate matter. The question is, if we're not getting any health benefits, then why continue to promote ethanol and other biofuels?

"There are alternatives, such as battery-electric, plug-in-hybrid and hydrogen-fuel cell vehicles, whose energy can be derived from wind or solar power," he added. "These vehicles produce virtually no toxic emissions or greenhouse gases and cause very little disruption to the land—unlike ethanol made from corn or switchgrass, which will require millions of acres of farmland to mass-produce. It would seem prudent, therefore, to address climate, health and energy with technologies that have known benefits."

[touringcamry]

I propose the installation of a mixer which feeds methane to the engine. The methane source would be funnels located in the seat cushions to intake fart gases and feed them to the engine for combustion.

[thereal2x]

Originally Posted by touringcamry

I propose the installation of a mixer which feeds methane to the engine. The methane source would be funnels located in the seat cushions to intake fart gases and feed them to the engine for combustion.

I support your proposal

[Toysrme]

I'm sorry you're in france? My fault. LoL!
At any rate... Here, E85 is almost always sold at-cost with gas. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower.




Corrected for the fuel economy impact; mathmatically it would work out for you like this:
$5.24 usd/g E85
$6.64 usd/g gas
At the end of the day, you would save 26% in fuel costs. But you'd prolly pay $1500usd converting to stand-alone less you went something cheap & DIY like megasquirt.


At any rate. It'd take you quite a good bit of miles to have recouped any costs for converting, less you did something dirty, like add an injector or something.