Timing belt mess up on 93 Camry (3VZ-FE)

[hbasavar]

Most painful day today 93 Camry 3VZFE

It all started with air bubbles in the coolant after an head gasket job. Posting on this forum suggested that likely my heads were not properly torqued to specs and I started out to retighten the head bolts.

To remove the Intake camshaft bolt, I used, as before, the the timing belt tension. This time turned out to be big mistake! The bolt wouldn't move but my timing got messed up. The belt probably slipped. I did the whole timing belt job and I did not had the vice the timing belt tensioner to push the pin in. I just pushed and bolted the tensioner in place. Something wasn't right. The timing belt looked ok and tight. Now all set and done the car runs but the engine makes a knocking sound (not continuous) with rpm dipping (by around 50 or so). I also see smoke coming out from inside the engine.

My questions are:

1. Did the timing belt get stretched and is messing up the timing? Would replacing the belt with a new one solve the problem?

2. To remove the crankshaft pulley bolt I used the alternator trick (just a blip) to remove it. I did not see what position the camshaft were in. Is it possible that the piston might have hit the valves and done some serious damage and replacing the timing belt alone may not solve the problem.

Thanks for your responses.

Hemanth.

[AdamS]

For your piece of mind---The 3vz-fe is a non-interference engine---the valves cannot physically contact the pistons. God Bless Toyota, a broken timing belt will only strand you and NOT destroy the motor.

-=Adam

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by hbasavar

Most painful day today 93 Camry 3VZFE

I did the whole timing belt job and I did not had the vice the timing belt tensioner to push the pin in.

??????????

I just pushed and bolted the tensioner in place.

Usually you need to rotate the engine a couple of revolutions to set the tension before tightehing the tensioner.

I also see smoke coming out from inside the engine.

Out from where inside the engine? What color smoke?

1. Did the timing belt get stretched and is messing up the timing? Would replacing the belt with a new one solve the problem?

If you streched the belt a little then the tensioner should compensate. I would start again with setting the timing and adjusting the belt tension properly as well as torquing the cam and crank pulley bolts to spec. I would also check the lobes in the belt to make sure you did not mess up a couple. Safe bet would be new belt. Never use the belt to provide tension to loosen/tighten bolts. Did you have to remove the distributor (if it has one) to do this work?

[hbasavar]

Originally Posted by AdamS

For your piece of mind---The 3vz-fe is a non-interference engine---the valves cannot physically contact the pistons. God Bless Toyota, a broken timing belt will only strand you and destroy the motor.

-=Adam

Thanks Adam. Good to know that 3VZ-FE is a non-interference engine. That is a sigh of relief ruling out one possibility. The belt is pretty new and was replaced when I did the HG job a couple of months ago and just has 1000 miles on it. It could only have been stretched as I remember when I replaced it, it was very tight even without the tensioner. We weren't able to put the tensioner without pushing the pin down. This time I could and used the bolts to slowly tighten it.

[hbasavar]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

??????????

I did not have to retract the pin using a vise. There was enough slack in the belt to push it and achieve the tension by tightening the bolts. When I had put the put the belt on during the HG job, I couldn't do it without pushing the pin down. It was too tight.

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

Usually you need to rotate the engine a couple of revolutions to set the tension before tightehing the tensioner.

I did not do that. I was afraid that it would slip without enough tension already.

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

Out from where inside the engine? What color smoke?

Clear smoke and thin from the rear bank (Cyl 1,3,5) towards the wall. I am suspecting exhaust gases but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

If you streched the belt a little then the tensioner should compensate. I would start again with setting the timing and adjusting the belt tension properly as well as torquing the cam and crank pulley bolts to spec. I would also check the lobes in the belt to make sure you did not mess up a couple. Safe bet would be new belt. Never use the belt to provide tension to loosen/tighten bolts. Did you have to remove the distributor (if it has one) to do this work?

The cam and the bolts were not removed on the rear bank. I chickened out well before and just wanted to get back where I started from. The lobes on the belt were ok. I agree, a new belt is worthwhile for the peace of mind. Learnt the lesson the hard way.
No, I did not have to remove the distributor for this job.

[ycartf]

When I did the timing belt job on our V6 1990 Camry 2VZ-FE I used a C-clamp in just the right position to compress the tensioner pin back into the housing and secured with the little grenade clip. As far as finding out how your timing goes with the cams and crank, Toyota also thankfully has lots of little marks and indentations to help you line everything up perfectly. Just research it in the factory manuals downloadable from the general forum area. I hope this helps.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by hbasavar

I did not have to retract the pin using a vise. There was enough slack in the belt to push it and achieve the tension by tightening the bolts. When I had put the put the belt on during the HG job, I couldn't do it without pushing the pin down. It was too tight.

I did not do that. I was afraid that it would slip without enough tension already.

Clear smoke and thin from the rear bank (Cyl 1,3,5) towards the wall. I am suspecting exhaust gases but I could be wrong.

I sounds like you messed up the reinstallation of the belt tensioner. There is also a procedure to check it as well, as it's a hydraulic tensioner. If it fails the test you need to replace it. Once you rotate a couple of times you need to recheck alignment marks.

You can't not do something out of fear, it's either right or wrong and not getting it right before re-assembly leads to more and bigger problems.

It also stills sounds like the HG job was done incorrectly and the re-torque unsuccessful. I thinks it's start over or turn it over to a shop.

[hbasavar]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

I sounds like you messed up the reinstallation of the belt tensioner. There is also a procedure to check it as well, as it's a hydraulic tensioner. If it fails the test you need to replace it. Once you rotate a couple of times you need to recheck alignment marks.

You can't not do something out of fear, it's either right or wrong and not getting it right before re-assembly leads to more and bigger problems.

It also stills sounds like the HG job was done incorrectly and the re-torque unsuccessful. I thinks it's start over or turn it over to a shop.

The installation of the tensioner is pretty straightforward as I have done it before. The only difference this time is that the slack allowed me to install it without retracting the pin. After installation, the belt did tighten.

I agree that the HG job hasn't gone all well. I am suspecting it is not torqued right or the warpage is preventing it.

Thanks for your responses.

[davemac2]

Originally Posted by hbasavar

The installation of the tensioner is pretty straightforward as I have done it before. The only difference this time is that the slack allowed me to install it without retracting the pin. After installation, the belt did tighten.

I agree that the HG job hasn't gone all well. I am suspecting it is not torqued right or the warpage is preventing it.

Thanks for your responses.

Warpage? I thought you had the head checked and re-surfaced?

You should be pinning the Camshaft sprocket to the head when removing its bolt by sticking a drill bit or something similar into the hole provided with it lined up at TDC.

davemc

[hbasavar]

Originally Posted by davemac2

Warpage? I thought you had the head checked and re-surfaced?

You should be pinning the Camshaft sprocket to the head when removing its bolt by sticking a drill bit or something similar into the hole provided with it lined up at TDC.

davemc

Yes, the head was resurfaced. I am not sure of the block itself. But I was told that the block is cast iron and wouldn't warp.

Can you be little more specific on how you pin down the camshaft? That would be great to know this trick.

Thanks for your response.

[davemac2]

Originally Posted by hbasavar

Yes, the head was resurfaced. I am not sure of the block itself. But I was told that the block is cast iron and wouldn't warp.

Can you be little more specific on how you pin down the camshaft? That would be great to know this trick.

Thanks for your response.

I went thru the factory manual last night and did not see this mentioned. Looks like they use a special tool to hold the timing sprocket with one hand and unbolt with the other. Maybe the pinning thing was on my Saturn rather than the camry, or I saw it mentioned in the Camry Haynes manual since that is the one I used at the time. I can't remember, but I do know I removed my camry V6 head without the use of that special tool and I know for sure I did not use the belt to secure the sprocket while unbolting. Look for a hole in the timing sprockets which should align with a hole in the head when you turn the sprocket to TDC or 45 deg before or past.

dave mc

[Luckynumber5]

To remove the cam sprockets you need to use an adjustable wrench and clamp it onto the hex portion of the cams. Then brace it against something with a piece of wood in-between since you do not want the hard wrench pressing against soft aluminum. This will let you break the sprocket bolts loose with a breaker bar.

[hbasavar]

I did replace my timing belt yesterday. But the problem has not gone away. It may not be knocking but I could just be running rich.

Before I started this, a month ago, the CEL came on and the code was the rear bank O2 sensor. I reset the CEL and was going to work upon it if it came back on. It didn't all this while and the car was just running fine. Since the battery was disconnected, the ECM might have got reset and hence the problem. The CEL is not coming. How can I force it to test everything? I have heard of Diagnostic mode and test mode, but I do not know how to do it.

Also could you please help me recognize this connection. I found this white connector disconnected and I do not know where it goes. It is next to the oil filter as shown in the picture. Appreciate all your help.

[hbasavar]

Problem Solved!

I took it to a mechanic to get an estimate of what it would take to fix it. He said the o2 sensor wouldn't do this and it is just a misfire. It would take him an hour to diagnose for about $36. Thanks for his input and I got home and changed the front 3 plugs (2,4,6) with no change. The next day I removed the no. 1 and I found the electrode bent closing in on the gap. I changed that one, and Voila! It purred with no hitch.

Thanks to all your input.