96 Engine swap, few questions before I jump in - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


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3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001 Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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Old 09-04-2007, 05:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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96 Engine swap, few questions before I jump in

Ok so let me start off by saying I am new to this forum and did read around/search before posting this. I am not a camry person so I wont sit here and pretend to know everything about these cars. I have however been working on cars and engines for years and years and built many turbo race motors (mainly mitsubishi's and worked at a performance shop).

The situation I am in currently is as follows. A close friend (currently a college student on a limited budget) owns a 1996 Camry LE. Currently it has the 4cyl 5SFE motor in it. Id like to think the car has been well maintained but im not 100% sure about anything. As it sits the car has 96k on it which to me is nothing for a japansese car. Hell my grandmothers 90 camry had 200K and ran great, she just wanted an old person car after 10 years.

She consulted me with some questions about an oil leak from the car. Her regular mechanic said it was a real main leak and he couldnt do it. I (not having the time being in school and working full time) referred her to a respectable trans shop. They inspected it and said the rear main did not appear to be leaking, it was the distributor O ring seal and to take it to a general shop. She eventually took it over to a toyota dealership here in MD who told her this... The oil pan gasket, distributor O ring seal, Valve cover seal and possibly the trans seal. Heres where your going to what to $hit yourself...they estimated the work for this and replacing a torque mount to be $4500!!!! Personally I want to file a claim with the better business bureau and toyota since they were trying to take advantage of a college student and her single parent mother, but were not going there with this post.

Knowing a lot about cars I figured id look it all over and steer her in the right direction as for $4500 I could completely redo the entire car. I spent the day with the car and toyed around with a few things. Decided to help her out and replace the oil pan gasket, VC gasket, mount and a few other things while I was in there.

I noticed initially with the pan off the EXTREME amount of "sludge" and when I got to the valve cover off even more. (We'll touch on this in a minute) Once it was all back together, a few bottles of brake cleaner later and running I came to find out more about this engine. While the leak slowed a great deal it was still leaking engine oil. Now with the engine clean I saw it was coming from the oil pump, under the timing cover thus im sure the seals under that cover, around the crank and probably the cam gear. Additionally the timing belt was cracking and in need of replacement. There is also a bit of oil coming down the trans underside, either the rear main or the dist o ring which I could not get since its a dealer part and they were closed.

So what im looking at now is this... A rear main is hours of labor, a shop $450-800 depending on who does it, the timing belt and related parts will be atleast $600. Even with this all sealed back up the engine is COVERED in sludge. In all honesty I was shocked, ive never seen anything like this. All in all im suprised it can run with the amount of oil contamination im sure its getting. So really what this engine has left in it is a big question mark. I can really justify putting $1000-1500 into repairing this engine, even sadly with 96k on it. Im a big fan of JDM motors. Ive bought 6+ turbo 4G63 engines for my DSM collections, an H22 for my daily driver accord and many other motors for friends cars. I am aware that I can get the JDM 5SFE for this car. So this is what brings me to my real questions. Id bet many of you agree its no worth the $ into this cars stock engine.

The cars a 1996, hence OBD2 and from what ive read and seen a crank sensor. My JDM lace has a good 1995 engine in stock. Please correct me if I am wrong but my thoughts were as follows. Get the engine, haggle down due to the 95 vs 96. Take off all the accessory parts down to the bock and head. Then swap out the oil pump with a new unit for a 1996 model (with crank provision). I found the OEM oil pump brand for mitsubishi AISIN (I think thats the spelling) for this engine at around $50. Really why not for that price while im in there. IS there OR IS THERE NOT there a CAM sensor in the 1996. From pics I feel (and I could be way wrong) the 97+ version has a coilpack, not a distributor. Thus these models have the cam sensor. The 96 with a distributor does not have this??

Essentially what id be doing is using the JDM block and head. Reusing the intake/exhaust manifolds, EGR stuff, Fuel rail... While its all out replace the timing belt, waterpump, misc seals/gaskets specially the rear main seal. What I need to do is verify that the crank sensor is the only difference between the 91-95 and the 96 5SFE motor. It will not be a problem to swap around all the accessory components to make it a bolt in affair and proper for the OBD2 I just want to be 100% sure what im getting into.

Remember this is for a college student on a limited budget. Figured I could get it all done here for $1000-1500 or so and get here through 2-3 years of school. At that point she can buy a new or slightly used car. A teardown/rebuild would be timely and me being in school I can't say I have time to do that...if it were winter I may but this engine is really cruddy!!! Figured a good weekend if my thought process above is right and I could have it all taken care of.

Thanks for reading through my long post and please let me know what you all think about this I really do appreciate it!

-Jon

Additional question, stock compression is 9.5:1 whats the factory pressure in PSI on these motors...I want to check the compression results to see another variable in this.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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what dealer was this?
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bill Kidd... Timonium MD

R&H is not much better but it wasnt my car so I didnt tell them where to take it, just wish I had the oppertunity to go in when they insisted on $4500 worth of work
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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the cam sensor is inside the distributor.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty9
the cam sensor is inside the distributor.
If this is the case can I just use the distributor off the car now (with the cam sensor in it? Id guess the cylinder head/mounting spot for the distributor is the same. Is this all right?
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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yes it should work to the best of my knowledge. i believe the only difference between jdm and usdm motors is the egr and other emissions related components. toyota started in 94 with obdII so you should be alright.

also, theres a repair manual download link stickied at the top of this forum that should have all the specs you are looking for.

Last edited by rusty9; 09-05-2007 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ok gotcha, thanks! I will look into that and print it out. I will just swap over the US version intake manifold so that I can hook up all the EGR components like they are now.

As long as the cam sensor is part of the distributor its just a simple switch over...with regard to the crank sensor, I will just replace the oil pump with a new 96 model one. So does this all seem right/what I need to know before jumping in?

Thanks
Jon
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Any additional insight is welcome...im sure a bunch of people have 96's out there.

Thanks
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok here goes, based the swap I had done last years into a '96 5SFE

You will neet to basicly strip the JDM down to being a long block (all wiring, intake and exhause manfolds go)

Swap out Oil pump for US '96 specific oil pump with sensor (reuse the shaft mounted sensor timing gear from old engine) DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE TIMING GEAR it is not included with the sensor or the oil pump. Change out anything else you like while your at it (water pump, timing belt, etc.)

Swap out JDM distributor for U.S. Distributor (the JDM uses a completely different distributor, even the spark plug wires will not interchange) I am not sure, but it may just be mechanical differences, still probably safer to swap.

Everything else should swap and mount up from the old U.S. engine (wiring, exhaust, accessories, intake, etc., the blocks are identical) I assume you are handy with engines, and have an understanding of how things work, and not just plug and play, as you may be faced with some decisions, like to reuse the U.S. Alternator, or to splice in the JDM one that has a different connector plug. I am not sure about A/C Compressor or Power Steering pumps, as I kept the U.S. ones as it was easier than swapping.

p.s. just to make it clear the '96 was the only year to have both the crank position sensor in the oil pump and a distributor. Sort of belt and suspenders, but thats the way it is.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think your wrong on the OBDII, I think it was '94 for the 6 cyl and '96 for the 4 cyl 5SFE

Ike

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty9
yes it should work to the best of my knowledge. i believe the only difference between jdm and usdm motors is the egr and other emissions related components. toyota started in 94 with obdII so you should be alright.

also, theres a repair manual download link stickied at the top of this forum that should have all the specs you are looking for.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The JDM motor will be stripped to a block and head and I will put it back together with the US spec parts. Please elaborate on the timing gear sensor. Will I need to drill/tap a spot for this or what? The rest seems pretty simple... compared to building custom wiring harnesses and mounts to put odd motors in others cars ive worked with this should (knock knock on wood) all good smooth.

Then I can clear a spot off on the driveway, make a friend really happy and save her the expense of a new car

Thanks all
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The gear should go right on no modification required, it should be fairly obvious when you have the engine apart.
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