Transmission flush: Any additives??

[wahed3001]

Hello,

I'm having my 94 Camry's (4 cyl, 129K on the odo) transmission flushed in a couple of days. The current fluid is very dark and dirty; there's a possibility that the fluid has never been changed before. My question is, should I add any additives to the new fluid after it's flushed? This tranny takes Dextron II/III by the way.

[touringcamry]

Just use Dexron III. No additives needed.

[xtremeskier97]

Originally Posted by wahed3001

Hello,

I'm having my 94 Camry's (4 cyl, 129K on the odo) transmission flushed in a couple of days. The current fluid is very dark and dirty; there's a possibility that the fluid has never been changed before. My question is, should I add any additives to the new fluid after it's flushed? This tranny takes Dextron II/III by the way.

Are you having any problems with the transmission? Any slippage?

Id just have it flushed and straight Dex fluid filled. If you are currently having problems with it and continue to have the same problems after the flush/fill, then I would think about additives....but not before a straight flush/fill.

[wahed3001]

Originally Posted by xtremeskier97

Are you having any problems with the transmission? Any slippage?

Id just have it flushed and straight Dex fluid filled. If you are currently having problems with it and continue to have the same problems after the flush/fill, then I would think about additives....but not before a straight flush/fill.

Nope. No problems with the transmission whatsoever. Sometimes shops add additives during/after a flush. I'll ask them not to.

[dc_98_cam]

I would suggest removing the transmission pan and thoroughly cleaning it before any flush treatment. You will find a thick layer of viscous gluelike material ... probably clutch plate residue and metal powder. ... I removed my pan at 44k mi., and there was a significant amount. If any of this material gets stirred up and settles in the valve body, it could ruin the transmission. ... It's not a major project. All you need is a new gasket, and some solvent ... probably gasoline. ... Also clean off the two magnets in the bottom of the pan.

[wahed3001]

Originally Posted by dc_98_cam

I would suggest removing the transmission pan and thoroughly cleaning it before any flush treatment. You will find a thick layer of viscous gluelike material ... probably clutch plate residue and metal powder. ... I removed my pan at 44k mi., and there was a significant amount. If any of this material gets stirred up and settles in the valve body, it could ruin the transmission. ... It's not a major project. All you need is a new gasket, and some solvent ... probably gasoline. ... Also clean off the two magnets in the bottom of the pan.

That's alarming. I don't want to ruin a perfectly working transmission by flushing it! So what's the exact procedure here? Drain the pan, take it off, clean it, put a new gasket on, reattach the pan, and then refill? When I take the old gasket off, do I need to apply any type of sealant/spray before putting on the new gasket? I want to make sure it doesn't leak later.

One more thing; I've never worked underneath the car before. What's the best/safest way the jack up the car? I'm thinking about using two identical jacks (screw type, used for changing tires, rated 1000kg each) on both sides of the car to take the front up. How heavy is the front half of a Camry? Can two jacks rated 1000kg each handle it? Thanks for your help.

[xtremeskier97]

Dont do any work under the car with just the jack supporting your car. Always use jackstands or ramps.

There is a thread about jacking up the car....search and you'll find it.

While you have the pan off, change the filter in there and clean off the magnets on the pan. Just make sure you have everything you need before starting this project if your camry is your only ride.

[dc_98_cam]

Originally Posted by wahed3001

That's alarming. I don't want to ruin a perfectly working transmission by flushing it! So what's the exact procedure here? Drain the pan, take it off, clean it, put a new gasket on, reattach the pan, and then refill? When I take the old gasket off, do I need to apply any type of sealant/spray before putting on the new gasket? I want to make sure it doesn't leak later.

One more thing; I've never worked underneath the car before. What's the best/safest way the jack up the car? I'm thinking about using two identical jacks (screw type, used for changing tires, rated 1000kg each) on both sides of the car to take the front up. How heavy is the front half of a Camry? Can two jacks rated 1000kg each handle it? Thanks for your help.

I suggest using a floor jack to lift the car, and two jackstands to support the car while you are working on it. Each jackstand is placed under the forward frame rail on each side of the car, just to the rear of each front wheel ... You will see a solid looking metal rail on each side. Before using a floor jack to lift the front of the car, by placing it under the front transverse radiator support, you should place a wood chock, a piece of 2x4 will do, at the back of one of the rear tires, just where the tire touches the pavement ... this will keep the car from rolling backwards when it is elevated. Once the jackstands are in place, carefully lower the vehicle weight onto the them. ...For additional information on the transverse lifting point and the jackstand placement, see p. 37 of the Introduction section of the Gen 3 repair manual link .... sticky at top of the forum page.

A screw jack might serve to raise one side of the car at a time, prior to placing the respective jackstands. If you foresee doing this type of job more than once, you would probably want to purchase some economical form of a floor jack. ... the kind with a long handle and a hydraulic cylinder.

Before you get under the car, visually inspect both jack stands to verify that they are not tilted, or canted, and are supporting solid metal.
The only mistake that you could make would be to have the jack stands placed under sheet metal. However, the difference is fairly obvious.

Remove the pan drain bolt and collect the used transmission fluid. Then remove the pan bolts ... no particular order. Slight persuasion with a lever or screwdriver will cause the empty pan to come loose. Try two or three different pry locations ... rather than damage or distort the pan sealing surface. ... Clean pan with solvent and place new gasket ... no sealer necessary. Note the approximate position of the two magnets in the bottom of the pan, remove magnets, clean, and replace.
Insure that the pan and case sealing surfaces are clean and free of any old gasket material.
I used an OEM gasket from the dealer as the new gasket.

While the pan is removed, you can also access the strainer, which is held by three bolts. The strainer is a part with two bolts at one end, and one bolt on the other, maybe 6" x 3" in size. Displace the tube or wire at one end and remove the strainer. Clean the strainer with solvent, and replace. I did not find any significant debris in my strainer. The torque value for the strainer bolts is only about 5 ft-lb, so don't overtorque when reinstalling.

Replace the pan and start all the pan bolts. Once all the pan bolts are started, and the pan gasket is aligned with no kinks or twists, snug all the bolts to finger tightness. ... Maybe just use a socket with no wrench. When all the bolts are snug, then use a wrench and socket to apply 7 ft-lb torque. Make more than one circuit of the bolt pattern to insure that none are loose. I didn't actually measure the torque, but just took care not to apply so much leverage that the gasket was excessively squeezed or compressed.

Refill the transmission fluid ... should be approximately 2.5 qts if it is the same as the Gen 4 version. Start the engine and verify the level of the fluid on the transmission dip stick in Park. After you have run the car for a few miles, recheck the dipstick fluid level.

If you are not comfortable or confident working under the vehicle, then purchase the required parts and materials and take them to a lube and tuneup shop.

[wahed3001]

Originally Posted by dc_98_cam

I suggest using a floor jack to lift the car, and two jackstands to support the car while you are working on it. Each jackstand is placed under the forward frame rail on each side of the car, just to the rear of each front wheel ... You will see a solid looking metal rail on each side. Before using a floor jack to lift the front of the car, by placing it under the front transverse radiator support, you should place a wood chock, a piece of 2x4 will do, at the back of one of the rear tires, just where the tire touches the pavement ... this will keep the car from rolling backwards when it is elevated. Once the jackstands are in place, carefully lower the vehicle weight onto the them. ...For additional information on the transverse lifting point and the jackstand placement, see p. 37 of the Introduction section of the Gen 3 repair manual link .... sticky at top of the forum page.

A screw jack might serve to raise one side of the car at a time, prior to placing the respective jackstands. If you foresee doing this type of job more than once, you would probably want to purchase some economical form of a floor jack. ... the kind with a long handle and a hydraulic cylinder.

Before you get under the car, visually inspect both jack stands to verify that they are not tilted, or canted, and are supporting solid metal.
The only mistake that you could make would be to have the jack stands placed under sheet metal. However, the difference is fairly obvious.

Remove the pan drain bolt and collect the used transmission fluid. Then remove the pan bolts ... no particular order. Slight persuasion with a lever or screwdriver will cause the empty pan to come loose. Try two or three different pry locations ... rather than damage or distort the pan sealing surface. ... Clean pan with solvent and place new gasket ... no sealer necessary. Note the approximate position of the two magnets in the bottom of the pan, remove magnets, clean, and replace.
Insure that the pan and case sealing surfaces are clean and free of any old gasket material.
I used an OEM gasket from the dealer as the new gasket.

While the pan is removed, you can also access the strainer, which is held by three bolts. The strainer is a part with two bolts at one end, and one bolt on the other, maybe 6" x 3" in size. Displace the tube or wire at one end and remove the strainer. Clean the strainer with solvent, and replace. I did not find any significant debris in my strainer. The torque value for the strainer bolts is only about 5 ft-lb, so don't overtorque when reinstalling.

Replace the pan and start all the pan bolts. Once all the pan bolts are started, and the pan gasket is aligned with no kinks or twists, snug all the bolts to finger tightness. ... Maybe just use a socket with no wrench. When all the bolts are snug, then use a wrench and socket to apply 7 ft-lb torque. Make more than one circuit of the bolt pattern to insure that none are loose. I didn't actually measure the torque, but just took care not to apply so much leverage that the gasket was excessively squeezed or compressed.

Refill the transmission fluid ... should be approximately 2.5 qts if it is the same as the Gen 4 version. Start the engine and verify the level of the fluid on the transmission dip stick in Park. After you have run the car for a few miles, recheck the dipstick fluid level.

If you are not comfortable or confident working under the vehicle, then purchase the required parts and materials and take them to a lube and tuneup shop.

dc_98_cam:

Thanks for such clear instructions. You've made it look simple enough that I'm willing to give it a shot! I don't have any jack stands at the moment but I'm thinking of getting a pair of rhino ramps instead. They come in 8000lb and 12000lb capacity per pair. Is 8000lb enough to support the frond end of a Camry? After draining, cleaning, and refilling is it still necessary to do a complete transmission flush? Also, what kind of solvent (brand?) would you suggest to clean the pan and the strainer?

Thanks again.

[94CoupeV6]

^ LOL well, a stock Camry weighs anywhere from appx. 2,900-3,250lbs. so I think you'll be fine with the 8,000lb capacity.

[dc_98_cam]

Originally Posted by wahed3001

dc_98_cam:

Thanks for such clear instructions. You've made it look simple enough that I'm willing to give it a shot! I don't have any jack stands at the moment but I'm thinking of getting a pair of rhino ramps instead. They come in 8000lb and 12000lb capacity per pair. Is 8000lb enough to support the frond end of a Camry? After draining, cleaning, and refilling is it still necessary to do a complete trans fluid flush?

Thanks again.

The negative aspect of the ramp usage is that several major maintenance procedures on these cars require removing the passenger side front wheel, and also the wheel well access panel. These jobs include timing belt replacement, water pump, both accessory belts. ... brakes too.

Actually, even if you only had two jack stands, you could probably lift the car from each side using a screwjack, and place a jackstand under the appropriate spot. You would just have to see if the screw jack would raise the car high enough to accommodate the lowest height of the jackstand adjustment.

After cleaning my transmission pan, I am just draining and refilling, and driving a while .... I think I will be satisfied with 3 or 4 cycles. I think you get about 2.5 quarts from draining the transmission, and the total capacity is something like 4 quarts ... will have to check that number.

The one other job that you might want to consider is the draining and refilling of the differential case. For the Gen 3 and Gen 4 vehicles, this is a separate compartment from the transmission fluid. There is a differential drain bolt .... actually a hex insert if I recall, and also a rear fill bolt.
The only problem encountered in this task is that there is not much access space to get a funnel into the rear fill hole. Draining is simple ... just remove the bottom bolt. One of the Toyota tech people on this forum said that the easiest way to refill the differential is to remove a sensor on top of the differential case, as well as the rear side bolt. Then you add the fluid to the top sensor hole, until you see it come out the rear fill hole. Then replace the top sensor and connector. ... This ought to be the best way to refill the differential, since you will probably spill some fluid doing it the other way .... filling through the rear fill hole. I think I left at least a quart on the driveway ... before I heard about the alternate method.

Others have suggested getting a manual fluid pump to get the new fluid into the differential case.

Also, note that the transmission, differential, and power steering fluid on the cars is DEXRON III, or something compatible.

If you decide to go the jackstand route, the ones with 4 legs in a square layout are said to be sturdier and more stable.

[wahed3001]

Originally Posted by dc_98_cam

The negative aspect of the ramp usage is that several major maintenance procedures on these cars require removing the passenger side front wheel, and also the wheel well access panel. These jobs include timing belt replacement, water pump, both accessory belts. ... brakes too.

Actually, even if you only had two jack stands, you could probably lift the car from each side using a screwjack, and place a jackstand under the appropriate spot. You would just have to see if the screw jack would raise the car high enough to accommodate the lowest height of the jackstand adjustment.

After cleaning my transmission pan, I am just draining and refilling, and driving a while .... I think I will be satisfied with 3 or 4 cycles. I think you get about 2.5 quarts from draining the transmission, and the total capacity is something like 4 quarts ... will have to check that number.

The one other job that you might want to consider is the draining and refilling of the differential case. For the Gen 3 and Gen 4 vehicles, this is a separate compartment from the transmission fluid. There is a differential drain bolt .... actually a hex insert if I recall, and also a rear fill bolt.
The only problem encountered in this task is that there is not much access space to get a funnel into the rear fill hole. Draining is simple ... just remove the bottom bolt. One of the Toyota tech people on this forum said that the easiest way to refill the differential is to remove a sensor on top of the differential case, as well as the rear side bolt. Then you add the fluid to the top sensor hole, until you see it come out the rear fill hole. Then replace the top sensor and connector. ... This ought to be the best way to refill the differential, since you will probably spill some fluid doing it the other way .... filling through the rear fill hole. I think I left at least a quart on the driveway ... before I heard about the alternate method.

Others have suggested getting a manual fluid pump to get the new fluid into the differential case.

Also, note that the transmission, differential, and power steering fluid on the cars is DEXRON III, or something compatible.

If you decide to go the jackstand route, the ones with 4 legs in a square layout are said to be sturdier and more stable.

Since I'll be working under the engine bay, I cannot place the jack stand underneath the front crossmember. I'll have to place them on the sides -- underneath the rails. I guess I'll jack one side of the car up and place a stand right beside the jack then take the jack out and do the other side with a second stand. By the way, what's the best way to clean the transmission pan once I've taken it off?

[toyomoho]

Suggest if you place the stands under the rails to stick a block of wood between the stand and rail. This will distribute the load a little better and not have the small area of the top of the stand pushing on the frame. Try jacking the trans side first, then see how much clearance you have to get under. If enough clearance make sure you place something solid between the floor and frame on the other side just in case the tire loses air.

Use a solvent like kerosene, diesel fuel, etc to clean the pan. Gasoline will work but don’t use it; one spark and it can ignite.

Make sure you have a new pan gasket plus some form in place gasket sealer (not silicone). Auto parts stores sell this. Don’t over torque the bolts and torque them evenly.

About 2/3 of the fluid is still in the torque converter, draining only gets about 2 quarts.

Remember to clean and REPLACE the magnets before reinstalling the pan.

Don’t use additives. Dexron II and III are obsolete, but the shop may still have supplies of type III. This fluid is good enough if the newer type is not available.

[dc_98_cam]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

Suggest if you place the stands under the rails to stick a block of wood between the stand and rail. This will distribute the load a little better and not have the small area of the top of the stand pushing on the frame. Try jacking the trans side first, then see how much clearance you have to get under. If enough clearance make sure you place something solid between the floor and frame on the other side just in case the tire loses air.

Use a solvent like kerosene, diesel fuel, etc to clean the pan. Gasoline will work but don’t use it; one spark and it can ignite.

Make sure you have a new pan gasket plus some form in place gasket sealer (not silicone). Auto parts stores sell this. Don’t over torque the bolts and torque them evenly.

About 2/3 of the fluid is still in the torque converter, draining only gets about 2 quarts.

Remember to clean and REPLACE the magnets before reinstalling the pan.

Don’t use additives. Dexron II and III are obsolete, but the shop may still have supplies of type III. This fluid is good enough if the newer type is not available.

I have often used a short piece of 2x4 between the jackstand and the chassis rail ... seems to even out the stress some.

The original gasket on the transmission pan did not have any sealer when I removed it. I did not use any sealer on the new pan gasket, and have had no leaks or problems so far. If you obtain an OEM gasket, or one of good quality ... say FEL-Pro, and take your time installing all the pan bolts, you shouldn't have any difficulties.

Gasoline is definitely flammable and should not be used around any flame or spark. Use your own judgement. You want to somehow obtain a clean, dry, greasless pan before you reinstall it, including the pan sealing surfaces. Maybe the parts store could recommend something.

Don't forget to reinstall the two pan magnets.

Don't foresee any real problem lifting the car from the each side and placing on a jackstand. .... Just be sure to reinspect the stands and their stability before you actually start doing the work. ... and also put a piece of wood or something jammed behind a rear tire.

Again ... recommend getting the four leg square type of jackstand for stability and sturdiness.

[wahed3001]

Thanks for your suggestions guys. I appreciate it.
I'm picking up a pair of these tomorrow morning:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...ord=jack+stand