Rear Gear "gone" on '00 i4 auto - help! - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

kocho · 10-04-2007, 04:05 PM

I have a '00 i4 LE auto. You may remember me - one of the first swappers of the read drums for disks back then... This, by the way is still working great! Now the car is at 119K miles (with probably at 60K on the Synthetic Mobil ATF after the last "home-flush").

A few months back I noticed the rear gear letting go momentarily when going uphil if I press on the gas pedal more than gently. But today, it simply disengaged and would not work at all, even on level ground or down-hill...

Any advice? I could not find the same issue posted, though some suggestions were to check the fluid level and to measure the TPS switch (not sure how to check it though).

I'll start with the fluid - hope it it as simple as low fluid. All other gears work perfect. What worries me is that I can feel the rear gear engage (or may be it is just the lever and connected stuff moving?) but it has no torque and the car does not move at all.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Creeps228 · 10-04-2007, 04:09 PM

transmission seems to be slipping i think dnt take my word for it

kocho · 10-04-2007, 06:36 PM

... mostly useless, I guess. The transmission definitely responds to the gearshift being put in R but the effect is almost nothing - I can feel as if half of something engages but that the other half is not connected to the rest of the transmission. Basically, 100% slipping without any torque transferred to the wheels.

The positions on the mechanical transmission switch seem correct, since all other gears work fine in manual mode and the indicator lights come on and go off as needed as I switch gears, so I assume the electrical part of the switch is also OK.

Am I right that there is no solenoid controlling the rear gear? Here is my logic. There are only two solenoids on the 4 cylinder and they both seem to control only the forward gears. I disconnected them to check resistance and the one on the right looked from the front (or towards the driver side) is about 28 ohms. According to the repair manual it should be b/w 8 and 100 so it seems fine. I don't know how to check the other one. But both must be fine, since driving the car without it (electrical wire disconnected) is OK, but the engine light came off as expected and the tranny logic got messed-up: it does not shift in some situations (e.g. overdrive control does not work, downshifting to 2 gear at speeds higher than a certain limit does not work etc.).

These tests had no effect on the rear gear though, so there is something else and I do not like it...

Any other suggestions to check?

Tom 2000 · 10-04-2007, 07:33 PM

I hate to say it, but it sounds like your transmission is gone. I had a Honda Accord with an Automatic Transmission with very similar symptoms that you described and the clutch pack for reverse was gone. After a rebuild, it was good as new again.

I remember your drum to disc conversion from way back.

kocho · 10-04-2007, 07:53 PM

I'm afraid it feels exactly like the clutch is gone. You might be right... I switch manually quite often and drive "spiritedly" and of all things expected that my forward gears might suffer - I don't understand why my reverse gear went out - I barely use it a couple of times a day... Or may be the short but steep slope of our driveway which I climb-up cold every morning in reverse is the very reason?

I guess what I want to find out for sure whether it is the transmission internals gone bad or there is a chance of some simple adjustment to fix it. I need help with this.

I guess I should begin researching for transmission rebuild options. A 5 speed swap crossed my mind too but it seems like too much work for me at the moment.

-=]KaiN[=- · 10-04-2007, 07:58 PM

there is a holding device inside the tranny that creates reverse. If that device fails be it a brake or a clutch you lose reverse, but have all other forward gears. I've replaced 4 gen 3, a140 tranny's for the same problem.

kocho · 10-04-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=]KaiN[=-

there is a holding device inside the tranny that creates reverse. If that device fails be it a brake or a clutch you lose reverse, but have all other forward gears. I've replaced 4 gen 3, a140 tranny's for the same problem.

Interesting. Is that something a "home mechanic" could do? E.g. that it does not require some expensive special tool more than anything else....

I know the auto tranny is very complex but there are parts and parts... On a Mazda 626 I replaced some valves on the auto tranny thru the bottom and front covers and that was not really a big deal.

IMO for a 120K mile auto tranny it might be worth it to do a full rebuild if this one piece you talk about is difficult to get to. But if what you are describing is something accessible and easy to fix (even if the tranny needs to be removed first), I would be willing to give it a try.

Let me know and thanks!

xtremeskier97 · 10-04-2007, 08:20 PM

Itll be cheaper and faster to get a used transmission and swap it in. Rebuilding the transmission is NOT cheap. It's between $1500-$2000.

kocho · 10-04-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremeskier97

Itll be cheaper and faster to get a used transmission and swap it in. Rebuilding the transmission is NOT cheap. It's between $1500-$2000.

I will probably end-up doing just that - get a relatively new one from a junk yard and see if I can install it myself. I just want to fully understand what my current tranny's problem is before spending the money and time on a new/rebuilt one...

xtremeskier97 · 10-04-2007, 09:11 PM

I understand where you are coming from. If you DO get one with relatively low miles from a junkyard..just make sure you do a good flush as soon as you get it and keep on top of changing the fluid out.

-=]KaiN[=- · 10-04-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremeskier97

Itll be cheaper and faster to get a used transmission and swap it in. Rebuilding the transmission is NOT cheap. It's between $1500-$2000.

I completely agree, when you start buying clutch packs, and other transmission hard parts, you could buy a toyota reman tranny for cheaper. Good used is the way to go.

kocho · 10-05-2007, 09:43 AM

Does anyone think it is worth it at this point to try to do a tranny flush? Is it a waste of time?

My feel is it is not going to help, but on the other hand I have my doubts...

The forward gears work just fine, but on the other hand the tranny fluid is grey. I think it is in OK shape - not thick and black (which would be bad), but is no longer not pure red as it was like new.... I think it is in good shape as it does not smell like burned, just contaminated from normal use over time. the level is also OK IMO - a little higher than the max (oon "hot" when the engine is hot) and has been there for the past 60K miles or so without the need to top-up...

Anyway, I'm probably going to buy a used tranny this weekend - local junk yards have plenty of them for anywhere b/w $180 and $1300 a piece - got to figure out what's up with that range... I saw several units offered at about $400 for a 20-40K miles on the car ('00 or '01 Camrys) and will probably grab one of these...

Final words of advise? If I can swap my brakes or struts or do my timing belt, do you think I can swap the transmission for a new one without too much trouble? I got the detailed Toytoa repair manual for this and it looks like a lot of work but doable...

dc_98_cam · 10-05-2007, 10:09 AM

Suggestion:
Even if you get a used transmission, remove the pan from the salvage car and clean it with some sort of solvent, before shaking the unit around or inverting it. The reason is that there will most likely be a layer of sediment and thick syrup-like material on the bottom of the pan, which will contaminate the valve body if it is stirred up or if the case is rotated. If you read the online repair manual about installing the transmission, you will find that there are specific instructions telling you not to invert the unit. ... Once you get the pan cleaned up, you can replace it and should have no unforeseen difficulties.
I can attest to this contamination layer being present .... found it on my '98 recently, with only 44k mi.... If you get your transmission off the shelf from the salvage yard, be sure you have some sort of guarantee. ... You would think that the people at the salvage yard would know what they are doing when they remove parts.

xtremeskier97 · 10-05-2007, 03:12 PM

60k miles on the current tranny fluid? Id try flushing it if it were me. Grey is NOT a good color for tranny fluid. Could end up being a LOT cheaper than buying a used transmission.

kocho · 10-05-2007, 08:05 PM

For the brownish tranny fluid, it is a synthetic fluid and I think a change in color I think is OK as long as it is not thick (which it is not). The worst condition was actually on the first flush of the original fluid at about 30K miles - the original fluid did have some sediment as well as small metal shavings. That was replaced with synthetic fluid, which on the second flush at what I think was about 70K miles (so I actually have only about 50K on the current fluid) looked very good - with no sediment or shavings. I'll tell you how this one looks when I drain it...

I bought today a salvage transmission from a '01 CE with only 19K miles on it. Comes with "101 days warranty" and at $375 along with an almost new looking tranny mount on it looks good to me. It does indeed look new-ish, except some rust on the big round thing that goes to the engine side. Probably from staying on the salvage yard's shelf for a while, hopefully would not be a problem once cleaned and installed. I'll follow your advice and remove the bottom and clean the area.

I guess I need to figure out if I need any replacement gaskets now. The main one seems to be metal and I should be able to reuse the original - have to check the manual about what it says on this. The other two are on the differential (where the axels go in) and they look new - I may not need to replace them too. What do you think?

Any other hints? I'll be removing the old tranny this weekend and if it turns I do not need new gaskets - try to put the new one in... Toyota stealership wants $240 for a "complete kit", which seems excessive...