3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
First time poster. Great forum. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Last week, my camry was running normal. I didn't drive it for the whole weekend. Got in it Monday morning, and turned the key ... car started fine and then stalled within 1-2 seconds. No weird noises, just died. Tried to crank again but it just continued to crank. No ignition, no popping, just the starter trying to turn over the engine.
Now, I did one thing over the weekend that was admittedly stupid, but I'm having a hard time correlating with this problem. I was checking the fuses by applying an ohmmeter across the contacts of the fuses with the fuses still plugged in. Yes, yes, I know I'm stupid. I still don't see how this would cause a problem. Is it possible I shorted something? I don't want this to be a red herring, but I feel compelled to mention it given the unlikelihood of shere coincidence.
Ok, so far I have pulled all the fuses (smart) and checked them all again. They are fine. To test the fuel pump, I jumpered the diagnostic connection and I can hear the pump. I am unclear whether I should here the pump temporarily when the key is turned to ON ... I don't think I hear it. I checked the EFI relay and it appears fine. In fact, when I pulled the fuse on the EFI circuit, and then reattached, I heard the fuel pump run for a few seconds and then turn itself off. I have squeezed the hose coming out of the top of the fuel filter, and it appears solid. Of course, I have yet to check to see if I can actually here fuel moving in the lines. Comments?
Is there anything I should look for with respect to the engine light. It stays on when the key is left in the ON position. Is this abnormal? Does the 1992 camry have any diagnosis codes (OBD I?)
I next decided to check for spark (as instructed in many other threads). I pulled the first plug wire and it came out (without the lead - i.e. broken plug wire). I don't know if I broke the wire when I pulled it, or if it already was toast. The same thing happened with the second plug wire. The third and the fourth appeared intact. At least one of the spark plugs had a burn mark on the insulator above the housing (corona effect?). The others looks brown with some limited deposits. Could a broken plug wire prevent the engine from firing at all? As you may have guessed, I have new wires and plugs being delivered tomorrow.
I've also read on the other posts that, assuming I get spark, I should check for spark and compression by spraying some carb cleaner into the throttle body or air filter. Any advice on this?
"I've also read on the other posts that, assuming I get spark, I should check for spark and compression by spraying some carb cleaner into the throttle body "
That would be my suggestion. Spray it in to the throttle body, not the air cleaner. You do not want any type of combustible liquid in the air cleaner. If the car now sputters on the throttle body cleaner, you know that your problem is fuel related, or rather lack of fuel.
Am I correct in using carb cleaner (and not starting fluid) when spraying into the throttle body? Heard starting fluid can burn too hot and possibly break something. Do I need to have someone else starting the car to get the flapper valve on the throttle body to open? Is this when I would start spraying??? Sorry, new to this.
Is the timing belt broke, remove the distributor cap and see if the rotor is turning when engine cranking. Does the engine have spark? Does the engine start if you press on the gas pedal? A single broken plug wire would not cause the engine to not at least make an attempt to start.
If the engine has spark, only spray when the engine is cranking and the throttle valve (flapper) is open. Keep your face away from the valve just in case the engine backfires and ignites the fluid. Don’t spray too much (a couple of seconds), the engine will either make in indication of starting or not. If it in any way tries to start you have a fuel issue.
toyo ...
I tried to hold the gas pedal down thinking maybe it flooded, but no luck. Thanks for the advice on the throttle spray. I will be checking that just after I make sure the new sparks/plugs have spark (in a few hours).
I will then check timing belt after that. Have never removed a distributor cap ... so I just remove the two bolts that hold the plastic cap (into which the park plugs are attached)? Are there any gotchas as far as removing the cap? Just pull it off, crank the engine, and the rotor will be obviously moving or dead?
I will get back to you guys on the results. Thanks.
Well, got the new plugs and wires. Torqued to the plugs to 13 ft-lb (seemed kinda low torque, but that is what it said). The rubber plugs on the distributor side of the wires (NGK) are very small, not like OEM ... is that normal?
OK, so the plugs had fuel on them. Could smell it and see it. One would think the fuel system is OK. The old plugs were well worn, but not toast (definitely time for a replacement). Anyway, after installing the new plugs/wires, I tried to start the car again ... same cranking without ignition (just like before). Next, I tested for spark. I did this by connecting jumper cable to a large in the trunk and other end to old spark plug housing (mainly so I could see the plug from the driver's seat (no helpers today). Make sense? No spark. Tried a different bolt, just to make sure, No spark.
If this setup makes sense, what do you think I should try next? Is it possible that the battery has plenty of juice for the starter but not enough to produce spark via distributor? Should I try the other wires for spark? Should I pop the distributor cap and check for rotor movement (i.e. timing belt)? Is there a way to check the timing belt by myself (no one right now to help turn the ignition)? By the way, the car sounds normal and it does not sound like the motor is any easier to crank when turning key (does this argue against a timing belt break?) Also, the timing belt was replaced 40K miles ago, so it should be OK. Are there any circuits in the car that could gone (i.e. ECU) and could be preventing spark at the plugs? Thanks for your help!
Well, it took me a while to get my hand in there but I finally got the distributor cap off (I'm sure you pros can get it off in 20 secs flat!) I don't see any obvious cracks on the cap. No moisture inside. Like I said, I have to wait till later to get someone to start the ignition to verify rotor is working. I see two electrical connections coming into the distributor. Should I run any tests on these? How do I get to the coil from here? Haynes manual is confusing because they often fail to show pictures that I need, and generalize some not-so-obvious steps.
You should find testing instruction and specs in the Gen 3 online repair manual ... see Ignition section. .... Seems like one or two other recent posts describing weak or defective ignition coils as a problem.
__________________
98 Camry LE, 2.2L, automatic
50k miles, drop in K&N A/F recent timing belt, water pump
Last edited by dc_98_cam; 10-18-2007 at 04:52 PM.
Reason: error
Once you get the distributor cap off (Not the distributor body) just set the cap and wires out of the way and turn the engine over with the key. If the rotor changes position then the timing belt is not broken. If it stays in the same place then a broken timing belt is almost always the culprit. You don't really need to see it spinning, you just need to determine that it is spinning.
I'm waiting for help to arrive to check the rotor (should be in the next hour). Hopefully it spins (I don't see how a timing belt could fail after 40K).
I was looking closer at the distributor cap, and was wondering what the "rotor button" is for? In my Haynes manual it shows the button *protruding* from the center of the plastic. My rotor button is flush with the plastic. Is this abnormal?
I'm waiting for help to arrive to check the rotor (should be in the next hour). Hopefully it spins (I don't see how a timing belt could fail after 40K).
I was looking closer at the distributor cap, and was wondering what the "rotor button" is for? In my Haynes manual it shows the button *protruding* from the center of the plastic. My rotor button is flush with the plastic. Is this abnormal?
The rotor button is supposed to stick out and make contact w/ the rotor. It connects the ignition coil to the rotor. If the button is flush w/ the cap there is no circuit, and no spark.
__________________ All of the lag, none of the boost.
VTEC It's like waiting for really bad sex.
Could the first cold weather streak (40-50deg) of the season (as we had over the weekend) or some other outer-wordly event have caused the old rotor button to seize or break?
I'm trying not to get too excited here, but at least I have a potential bright light. Do I need to replace the whole distributor cap or is there a quick fix just to test the theory?
I have never heard of the button just breaking off cause of cold weather, but it could happen. If the rotor button doesn't stick out at all the cap is shot (probably defective). Just buy a new one, they're like $11 from Advance Auto Parts.
__________________ All of the lag, none of the boost.
VTEC It's like waiting for really bad sex.
The button looks like plastic with a metal ring around it that has a little give (barely moves like a button), all flush with the surrounding plastic. Was this once all metal?
Just a cautious thought ... is it possible I broke it when I removed the distributor cap? I tried to be gentle, but it was tight quarters and had to wiggle it out.
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recent timing belt, water pump
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